The Working REALTOR®: Brand Authenticity, Value, and Reputation

Tony Joe: Brand is what people think of when your name is mentioned.

Angie Vazquez: Oh, you're the REALTOR^® with the bulldog.

Shaun Majumder: I have been in Carrie Fisher's bathtub.

Shaun: What's your brand? You know, that thing that everybody knows you for? The thing that defines you and how you operate, at least from an outsider's perspective. For REALTORS^®, having a strong, distinct personal brand can not only help you stand out from the crowd and make a good first impression, but it can also help you build your reputation. Today, we're speaking with three REALTORS^® who really know how to own their brand and use it to build professional relationships.

I am so excited, guys. This is my third episode. Every single week, I am learning something new about your amazing industry. Today, we're not talking to an analyst. We're not talking to somebody who has an opinion about things. We're talking to the actual REALTORS^®, the soldiers on the ground, getting it done every single day. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Today we're focusing on brand. This idea around brand. From my perspective, when I think about brand, I think of a company's brand. In your case, you guys, not only are you dealing with a company that perhaps you work for, but you're talking about your own personal brand.

I want to start the conversation today by, why don't you guys tell me what you guys think brand means to you as a REALTOR^®? Let me know, how do you define brand. Greg, maybe I'll start with you.

Greg Hamre: Our brand is our name, Hamre. Our tagline is we know a lot of us who use both of those brands. That shows trust, commitment, longevity. We have three generations in the Ottawa real estate market, so we have legs here. We have multiple generations of clients. It also means we nurtured the client. We give free advice every day and try to promote our city as well as the lifestyle that Ottawa has to offer. We think it's a great place to live, and we love moving people in and out of our city. We love when they return.

Shaun: When you say multiple generations, what do you mean?

Greg: Well, my mother, Shirley Hamre, was an all-star REALTOR^® for many years, starting in the '80s. When I joined the company, she was--

Shaun: Tough time to start.

Greg: It was, but she was very much an entrepreneur, one of the top females in Canada. I'm very proud of her. She founded our business. My brother became my business partner in the early 2000s. Both my son and daughter are REALTORS^® as well and champions, as well as the rest of the agents on my team.

Shaun: Oh, that's amazing. Your mom-- Look, when you were looking up to your mom back in the day when you were just a teenager, were you thinking, "This is what I'm going to do?" Was she like, a South Asian dad who was like, "You're going to become a doctor"? 

Greg: No.

Shaun: You know what I mean?

Greg: Yes.

Shaun: How did that work?

Greg: To me, it was very much a retail job, and I wanted to get out and expand and be more national. Then when I came back in-- I started 25 years ago. I came into the city of Ottawa and understood that there's a relocation part of this business. That's picking people up at the airport, showing them our city, finding the right missing piece of the puzzle to make sure that when they relocate here, they're in the neighborhood that suits their lifestyle, their recreation needs, their work needs, their transportation needs, and their family school base.

To me, I never wanted somebody to make a mistake or move here and say, "This is not the city for me. I'm not happy with my house," or "I'm not happy with my neighborhood. I got forced into it because we were short on time." That never happens. We spend a lot of time before they arrive, on the phone. Today it's with video so we're coaching them, we're understanding them, we're asking a lot of questions. We know the family dynamics. We get really, really deep in the family's needs, their style, what their motivation is.

Yesterday I was speaking to someone from PEI. Earlier in the week we were talking to someone from Vancouver. They got hung up by the snowstorm last week so they couldn't come in, but we're still working with them. A lot of those people – and I just have people leaving today from those, heading back to Nova Scotia – we're so deep with them. They absolutely, in a lot of cases, didn't have to arrive here to look at the house. They wanted to and we wanted them to, but we knew exactly what their needs were, what their style of lifestyle was, what meant something to them, and what the perfect place for them to call home would be, in a lot of cases, before they arrived.

Shaun: What I'm hearing is that as a brand, for your company's brand, for your team's brand, it sounds like you really, really invest in the needs of the client. Is that how you would encapsulate the brand of your particular team? When you think about brand – because I know you have a branding background, right? – how does branding as an individual REALTOR^® differ from, say, when you're trying to build a brand for an upstart company?

Greg: In our case-- and again, a lot of our business is repeat and referral, and referral with other agents across the country, and around the globe, quite frankly. I've done deals, interacted with Tony in Victoria before. We've had the trust from each other to know that the customer that we're dealing with is very important. I would only put them in the hands of somebody on the other end that I know could give them the same style of representation that I could.

Shaun: Love it. How about you, Angie? How do you define brand? What does brand mean to you?

Angie: Brand is your story. I think it's your life story. Listening right now to Greg, I want to move to Ottawa now. It's just amazing the way you're very passionate. I can relate because we're like a tourism guide of our city. I am in Squamish, and it's a very nice community, only 24,000 people. It has been easier to be outstanding because I think-- With the billboards and the bus shelters, I feel like a celebrity in town. Walking, everybody recognizes you, so I like the feeling of the small town as well.

The brand is my story. For many years, when I started real estate, I felt insecure about my accent, if they can understand, and particularly this is challenging. Going to interviews, et cetera, I was like, "Oh my God. Am I saying this correctly?" I think at the end of the day, people, it's what is different about my brand. My person and my accent, it's part of the whole brand. I think at the end of the day it has been an asset instead of a liability.

Shaun: When you talk about story, you talk about narrative and your own story, are you talking about the personal journey that you've been on? How much of that do you actually share with your clients, and how much of that actually helps build value for you and your business?

Angie: That's very deep, because of course we are a public person. Everything we do at the end of the day in the negotiation and in a small community, of course it's more noticeable. I started working at London Drugs 14 years ago when I moved to Canada 16 years ago, and I started to be a part of the community. Of course, being at London Drugs, it was like a shell. I got exposed to meeting people in the community, and I feel that they feel very proud of me that now I'm a very successful REALTOR^® in town. I'm one of the top producers here, and it's like, "Oh my God, I remember when you were at London Drugs."

As a single mom raising two kids in the community and sponsoring now events for the firefighter gala, or going to the Helping Hands, it's nice to give back to the community. Sometimes I feel more like a community promoter, more than a REALTOR^® or a salesperson. My background is computer engineering. I had the opportunity to share this story through social media, and people engaged with me and support everything we're doing, and that's the way we talk to the community as well.

Greg: Be proud of yourself. I think, as REALTORS^®, we're all trying to stand out with our brands. Your voice stands out, and it's really recognizable.

Angie: Can you understand what I'm saying? 

Greg: Absolutely.

Shaun: Oh yes, for sure. Tony, how about you? What does brand mean to you?

Tony: It means what both Greg and Angie have said, absolutely. In addition to that, what I feel is brand is what people think of when your name is mentioned. When somebody says Greg, what does that represent? I think it is within us as real estate professionals to make sure that we build in the background over many years, not a persona, but a personality where people know what they're going to get. Right?

When somebody, a client, is at work and is talking about wanting to buy or sell something, what the brand is is when their colleague says, "Oh my goodness. You have to talk to Angie," or "Greg's the guy." That is the brand. One of the things, Shaun, that you asked a moment ago was about-- or something that has come up was companies versus REALTORS^® and branding. Let's face it. As real estate agents, we don't have the budget that major companies have to spend on marketing. A lot of what the brand is for us is the time that we have invested within the community. As Angie said, people get to know who we are and what it is we do.

The other thing for me is a brand is-- it's like a pledge. It's like a pledge. It's a promise of what you're going to get. I think the hardest thing for a consumer is trying to go through advertisements or the internet or websites and trying to figure out who is the person I'm going to pick for my real estate needs. It's hard for them to know-- It is harder, I think, than we appreciate, where people look online and go, "I don't know if this is a good person," or, "Is this going to be the right fit?" To have a brand where you are that person, you're the guy, you're the gal, that to me is a brand.

The other thing too is somebody with a marketing budget who spends money on ads or bus benches, we all have our different ways of marketing. The problem, I think, is that there's always somebody else with a bigger budget, and they can go and get a bigger bus bench or a bigger billboard or whatever. When you have a brand that is recognizable and people know what it is you get, you can't be dethroned. Somebody is not going to suddenly become the celebrity, like Angie said. That doesn't happen overnight. It's a pretty significant investment. I think investing in the community so that people know who you are and what your brand is, it can't be taken away. Right?

Greg: To Tony, that part-- We've known each other for years. Got to meet Angie this week and it's been great, but it takes time to get that trust in somebody, right? It takes time. Right now I'm looking for an agent in Sherbrooke, Quebec. I've reached out to all my agents that I have relationships with, in Sherbrooke, Quebec that are like us, or like me, and said, "Who would you trust in Sherbrooke, Quebec?" Because I wouldn't just go on the internet and find a referral agent, ever. Unless I know that they're trusted and they're trusted by my peers, I'm still haven't found the agent yet.

Shaun: That's interesting because, Greg, when you're thinking about it from your perspective, you're on the inside. You have other peers that you've worked with that they all know the kind of language to speak and how to refer somebody to you from the inside. If I'm a buyer or a seller, I don't have a network of people. I think what we're dealing with is we're going through listings, like who are these people, their bus benches, their ads online. There's a vibe there. There's social media.

I can't imagine what it was like for your mom back in the day. She was literally pounding out pulp and paper to make papyrus leaflets, going door to door and handing them out. Now you have so many different options to share who you are.

Greg: To that point too, you can build your brand so much quicker than you could before. The cost of print, the cost of getting your kids to go door to door with flyers and that, it still works. Not a bad thing, but with social media today and the availability of telling your story, being empathetic, as a REALTOR^®, as a young REALTOR^® new in the business, you can build your brand a lot quicker than you could 25, 30 years ago.

Tony: I think it's really important-- We're talking about Greg's mom or REALTORS^® from previous generations. What they did is what we still need to do, which is to face-to-face with people, and to actually engage with them. We have to make good on our promise. To have a brand which is, "Oh, he or she is a great REALTOR^®," we have to make good on that promise, but the face-to-face I think is crucial. All of these tools and marketing that Greg was just mentioning here, absolutely. Things can happen quicker, but the face-to-face is still the thing.

Shaun: Yes. You still have to pay off, right? You still have to have that vibe and that connection with people. Angie, you talk about you're in a smaller-- I wouldn't say small. I'm from a town of 350 people. When you say that you're in a tiny town of 22,000 people-- I think relatively speaking, when you're talking about developing your brand in a small town like that, like face to face, you've already had a history with some of the people in the community. Now, how do you take that personal relationship that you already have with the community and then bring it to your professional life?

Angie: Totally, it's more reinventing yourself. They say that only 50% of the marketing works, but nobody knows what 50%. I think in the beginning what most of us did is I did it all, like door knocking and pamphlets, brochures. Now I try to focus all the efforts on social media, but I also did something very clever because I was in the radio here and there's only one radio station from Vancouver to Whistler to check traffic. Then I always was recording like, "Thank you for the community," and in Christmas, like Feliz Navidad in Spanish. One day I was going to Home Depot and somebody were like, "Oh, your voice. I heard you on the radio." It's outstanding being on there.

That campaign was very successful. It's trial and error. I had a campaign. One day I was in a photo shoot, and I was taking care of a bulldog. Grabbing to help the photographer because the sellers were away. Then the photographer took a photo and I put her in a bus shelter. I received more than 50 texts. "Did you get a dog? Did you get a dog?" I discovered that it's a great way to connect with the community when you do a campaign. Then I tried the same campaign for cat people. I was like, I'll do a campaign with a cat. The campaign with a cat was not successful like the one with the dog.

Again, some stuff that we do it's a hit, and some stuff it doesn't work, right? Again, you have to do it all at the end of the day.

Shaun: I see. You're playing pet politics. You're doing cat people versus dog people. That can be very divisive in the country we live in today.

Angie: I hear you because I know the dog people won. That campaign, it was just dog people. 50 texts, and about the dog. I was like, "Guys, it's not about the dog. It's about me. It's about real estate." Nobody cared. It's like, "Oh, you're the REALTOR^® with the bulldog." People, they start connecting and they can relate. It's very interesting. It's also about reinventing yourself. Nine years ago, I started with Instagram and nobody knew about Instagram, or a lot of REALTORS^® they didn't use Facebook. Now it's TikTok. You have to always be reinventing yourself.

I have the privilege as well to have now a family business. I feel like Italian, El Padrino, because now my son is the next generation. He's 22. He got two years ago his real estate license. I have to say that I forced him. I cannot say that it was organic because he was working in construction, and he was taking a gap year. Now as a REALTOR^® and the campaign with us, when I was endorsing him as a REALTOR^®, oh my God, it was so successful because he's very aspirational. I think everybody of us as parents, we always want our kids to join the business, right? I think it was also a lot of people, "Congratulations. I wish my son wanted to work with me. I wish my daughter wanted--" It has been a very--

Again, it's not planned. It wasn't a plan to be a marketing campaign, but it ended up being a branding and marketing campaign. It's organic.

Shaun: Angie, how old is your son?

Angie: 22.

Shaun: He's dialed into the social media.

Angie: Oh my God. I couldn't do it without him. Yes, it's very, very nice.

Shaun: That's awesome. It's funny because when we talk about the whole social media branding thing, it seems like-- You see online there's different individuals. There are those people who are "influencers", and they peddle products, but who are they as a person? You never really get to know that.

Tony, I'm just curious your thoughts on that. You've lived a few years. Now when you think about that, the social media side of things versus the face-to-face stuff, talk a little bit more about that and how important it is to really be sure that you're there and you're present. It's not just about how many posts can you do, but what's behind them.

Tony: I started in this business 34 years ago, and things have changed. Yes, folks, there was a time when there was no internet. There was no email. We had to physically, pen and paper, write contracts and run them over to people's houses at midnight and run across town. That's the way things were. There was always advertising. There was print advertising. It was always easy enough to portray yourself maybe as something you're not. I think this is one of the drawbacks to social media today, is it is very easy, especially in the days of HGTV.

All of these selling fancy home TV shows and things like that where there's this specific glamour that people attach to the real estate industry which, let's face it, is not really there. That's TV, right? To be able to post on social media a persona that is not what the people get when they meet you. I had mentioned before you still need to make good on your promise. It's a reminder about the fact that in the background, we still need to be good at what we do. We still need to be skilled at negotiation, at marketing, at dealing with customers. It's a lot of counseling. We counsel people through a very stressful time.

The biggest failing really would be when somebody is delivered to you on your lap based on advertising or a promise and it's incongruent with what they get. Really it is crucially important to be in the background good at what you do.

Shaun: It sounds like authenticity is an important value.

Greg: Yes, you can't sell. The worst thing you can do is sell. The second worst thing you can do is go dark, meaning you're not out there. You have to be consistent. You have to educate, inform, and give away free knowledge about the market. Don't worry about the selling part. Just be empathetic about who you are, what you know about the industry, what's happening in the industry. Everybody wants to know. There's television shows, channels called HDTV, I believe. I've never watched it. People love to know what's going on in real estate. We need to be that voice in our communities.

When you're telling people, "Here's what's happening. Here's how the tariffs are going to affect us. Here's how the weather will affect us. Here's how lower interest rates will affect us," and allowing them to make the decision, is this the time for them or maybe it isn't? Giving them the confidence that you know. You are the news, and you know what's happening in the marketplace. This takes years and years and years.

We started doing video online in '08, '09, so it's not new to us. We were out there. When people understand our voice, understand the color of our eyes, our mannerism, they know that already from watching video on social media. We have to be there constantly so that we don't get bumped away. Everybody knows five REALTORS^®. How do you be the one that they call? How are you the one that they go, "That's the one I have the confidence in. They know what's going on, and they're the ones that can take my sale or purchase of my home across the finish line"? It's so important.

Shaun: Greg, as a potential buyer in the Ottawa market, I'm scouring the internet, and then I come across something that you and your team have put out there. Why should I choose you guys? Because there's so much out there. What are you thinking about in those terms? Because it's all just voice and people trying to sell me something. From my perspective, it's so hard to differentiate. What are the things that you guys do at your team to differentiate?

Greg: That's a great question, Shaun. The average buyer takes 368 days to make their purchase decision. It isn't overnight. We have to build relationships with them. We know the name of their dogs, their cats, their kids, what schools their kids go to. We know what their favorite restaurants are. We get to know what their lifestyle is. Do they go to the gym in the morning or the afternoon? Are they into running or would they prefer to bike? Do they take public transit or everybody in the family has a car and that's why they can't live downtown, they need space? We need to know what their situation is.

Now, it's great that some people come in and buy in five days on a relocation trip. That's wonderful, but we've built a lot of time and trust with that family a long time before they arrived. When it's a local person, they're moving laterally, maybe they're moving up or downsizing, it takes a long time. I've done three listings already this year that we've been working with those couples on selling their homes – most of them were a year, the other two were a year and a half – where we had the summer photos already, so we could do that when the snowbanks for six.

There was a lot of nurturing, trust-building, and confidence. This isn't a sales situation like any other sales business, and I don't like the word. It's a relationship business, there's a trust, and we're so involved in their lives. There isn't another sales career that actually fits the mold like real estate does, and I love it.

Shaun: Angie, you were talking about-- I remember I heard a story about how personal it can get, and for some reason, a specific group were gravitating to you specifically. Talk a little bit about that. How your personal brand plays into your professional persona.

Angie: Totally. It's very interesting because I got a call from a beautiful client and she was like, "Hey, Angie. Somebody recommended you because I'm divorcing. They said, 'If you're divorcing, Angie is the one who's going to help you out.'" I'm like, "Oh my God, how come?" I always ask, "Who do I have to thank?" because I send a gift card if somebody recommends me. She was like, "We were in a therapy group, and everybody were like, 'Oh, Angie. No, totally Angie.'" It was the whole group. It was very flattering, but at the end of the day, I think because I have been through divorce as well, I can relate, and I can help in that difficult time.

They say that there are three difficult times in everybody's life. That is when somebody dies, when you move houses, or when you divorce, right? We have the opportunity to help somebody through these stages in life. Greg was mentioning yesterday as well, right? I have sold houses. I started 13 years ago, but I sold a house to a very young couple that they were relocating from Vancouver to Squamish, because we are in the middle of Whistler and Vancouver. It's a very nice community, 30% less per square foot. Young couples want to live here because of the lifestyle.

Then they had a baby. They bought a condo, had a baby. I moved them to a townhome. After the townhome, they had another baby, to a detaching family home. Unfortunately, they are divorcing and now they need two townhomes or a condo and a townhome. Backwards, right? 13 years that I was in the process of having family and having more kids and going to school, and now separating. You get involved emotionally as well with them, because I were like, "Oh my God, not you guys," but it's part of life and it's part of what we do.

Shaun: How do you protect your own mental health in those situations?

Angie: Oh my God, Shaun. That's a very good question because sometimes you're drained. I was sharing a story yesterday as well. I went to a presentation center, the 10:30 appointment, with one of my friends and clients that is divorcing, the 12:30 appointment with another one, and the 3:00 PM. You hear all the stories as well. I came home and I was exhausted, at the end of the day, but here with nature and walking in the forest or swimming in a lake. You're totally right. You need also to recharge because the expectation, and my own expectation, is that I have to be always on the top of my game, and not only for my clients as well, because after all, we are life coaches of our kids.

For me, that my son works in the company, it ups my game because I cannot be-- I have to be on the top of my game to inspire my family first and then the community, if I can, in a way. Everybody wants to share a success story. Tony, as well, you mentioned about authenticity. You cannot be like somebody else. People will know. If you do it for the sale or for the money, forget about it. This is a service. REALTORS^® being-- it's like you're a therapist, you're like a psychologist, you're a coach, yes, and you're the best friend. Yes, I see it that way.

Shaun: Tony, I guess that is what you mean by Monday to Monday. It's not just, "Hey, I'm meeting with this client today. We're going to focus on this hour. I'm going to go over numbers. We're going to look at what's available, what's not available," and then you go away from it and you're like, "Okay, I'm done with that session." It sounds like it doesn't work like that.

Tony: I think what we're discussing is the difference between having a relational business with a consumer and a transactional one. Unlike regular retail settings where you sell a stereo and bang, that's it and you never see the consumer again, this is a very intimate transaction. As Angie says, we get to know everything about consumers, to the point where we have to pledge confidentiality, right? With that trust that we hold in people, there is that pledge of protecting them and serving them, and all that.

Greg had mentioned the timeline and the cycle it takes for a consumer to go through. It got me thinking. In today's day and age, REALTORS^® partake in online lead generation where they pay money to get leads to have introductions made, which is fine. This is a new way of marketing today. Agents forget about the fact that usually when people sign up, the consumer is very early in their cycle. They're not five days from buying or a month from buying. They are a year from buying or 18 months from buying. That's the reason why REALTORS^® often complain about the fact that oh, these leads are crappy, they're junk. They're not a good lead.

It's not that they're not a good lead. It's just that they're not a now lead. They're not a now lead. They require nurturing, they require incubation, and the people who succeed at these are ones who are good at regular follow-up and establishing a relationship. It almost seems like this is the message for this particular session today, is the relationship. Having a brand that establishes a relationship with a consumer, because it is it is a deep relationship. It's not transactional, right?

Shaun: What I'm hearing from all of this, which is really, really interesting, it sounds like-- When we hear the word brand, brand is very surfacy, it's out there, but in this business, it's probably-- What is the split? What is the split between advertising and getting your "superficial" brand out there? What percentage is it that versus what percentage is the-deep-in-the-trenches authentic relationship-building? I know they go hand in hand, but it sounds like it's much more about the relationship than it is about the superficial.

Tony: I will say this. We study it across the country, and we have a look-- I'm involved in a real estate coaching company and I teach. I'm an instructor for our regulator and I have the pleasure of getting to know all these people across the country, like Greg could clear across Canada, right? What we have noticed is there's a lot of agents who do very well. Who do really, really well, but you never see them because they don't advertise in the tradition. You don't see them on the bus benches. You don't see them on the billboards or things like that because they focus on the relationships with people.

In some respects, maybe they don't need to produce as much to pay for that advertising because their advertising is much more face-to-face. Again, I think it's something that sometimes agents forget about. It's not just all about the splash. The thing about our business is it's built in a way that agents can promote and advertise, which is great. You think about the financial services, like financial advisors. They have compliance, and it prevents them from actually advertising or doing social media. We have this gift that we can do that, but sometimes it's the superpower that maybe is not used correctly because, again, we advertise a persona that maybe we're not in alignment with.

Greg: When you talk about that, Tony, I think that's very interesting. I think you're talking about when people have hashtags or tags that are over-promising the customer. When you go back to your style, and I think it's Angie style, as well is building community within your community, and you're building trust. You may be on a billboard. You may be on the back of a bus. You may be on a practice jersey at the rink supporting kids. You may be promoting the Children's Hospital, the work at the Children's Hospital. You may be using your voice to promote the Snowsuit Fund that we do here in Ottawa as well, another one of our avenues.

That kind of promotion of being involved in the community, you know what? We get it. We want our community to be a wonderful community. It's all a part of the lifestyle of living here. That's why Ottawa is such a great place to be because people are so into caring for one another throughout the community, plus we have recreation. Plus, all that stuff goes alongside, and that just builds on your brand, builds on your community advertising, keeps your voice out there, and reminds people that, again, everybody has five REALTORS^® they could choose. How do they choose you?

Angie: The word-of-mouth of the referral business as well. At the end of the day, everybody now with a budget. It's true that with social media, everybody has. Even smaller companies can compete with big companies and can go viral. It's a phenomenon what is happening right now with the social media, avenues open to everybody with a smaller budget. At the end of the day, I think seniority and being an expert in your town. The average age in Squamish is only 38 years old, so I had to very be conscious about how to-- They don't grab newspapers. They don't read magazines. They go on social media.

They're always in social media, so that's the only way that I can communicate with them. It's not to reach them as a lead, it's communicating, engaging that they know that I'm all there and demographic. Again, that I can understand their needs because they're here for the lifestyle. It's a disadvantage in a way that I don't ski or mountain bike, et cetera, because my competitive sport is real estate. I do risk in a very high level. A lot of people, they get their clients biking, so they will think it's a disadvantage that I'm not out there biking because I'm working. I'm working for them. I think I play, so I don't know. It's just perspective at the end of the day.

Tony: I love that.

Shaun: Now, I'm curious about-- well, because I hear a lot about community. I'm hearing community is so important. How has your REALTOR^® brand led to new connections that perhaps are outside of your workspace?

Tony: I love this conversation. I often chat with other agents about merging your interests and your passions with business and finding things that you enjoy doing, because you're going to do it anyways, and how often, when you do it often enough or you're seen often enough, the consequence becomes doing business. For me, for instance, I'm a car guy. I love cars. I am deeply in the local car community. We organize a big event here in Oak Bay. Oak Bay Collector Car Festival has been going for 25 years. We close off five city blocks in a little village here called the Oak Bay Village. We get 350 cars out, 30,000 people come out for the day. I just love doing that, and my participation there is as an organizer.

Now, this has nothing immediate to do with real estate, but you think about it, guys. It takes planning. It takes countless committee meetings. You're sitting with people who you didn't know before, and you have a sort of common interest. When people start getting to know you, they start getting to know who you are and what you represent. Then suddenly you get the phone calls from people saying, "Hey, I got to sell. I got to buy," or, "I have a friend or family member who wants to sell or buy." Just getting back to this conversation of relationships, that's how you build the relationship.

The other thing too Angie had mentioned, so important for us to donate and to contribute within the community. It is easy to write a check. Again, I do believe that we should be supporting organizations, but sometimes the gift of your time and your skills and your connections-- See, consumers think that REALTORS^® are connectors. Let's make good on that promise, which is the reason why I always feel that we as REALTORS^® should be doing more with the service organizations, with the Rotary, the Kiwanis, all of those groups.

It saddens me when I speak to agents in communities and find out that there's no REALTORS^® in these groups, and there should be. There should be because if our motto is to serve, we should be serving the community. Givers gain, giving starts the receiving process, and that's what the community service is all about.

Shaun: I can say just imagining myself in that situation, immediately there's a feeling of trust in the way where if I'm having a conversation with, let's say, you, Tone, about a car, it really is disarming. I'm fully open and vulnerable to hearing your story. There's no, "Okay, what is this?" I'm not feeling you out for anything, I'm just fully listening. I imagine by being involved in the community in other ways than simply being a REALTOR^® out trying to promote your business, that really can bridge and really connect.

Greg, do you have examples like that in your life and in your team's life about bringing what are your superpowers, if you will, that are outside of the REALTOR^® game?

Greg: My superpower is enthusiasm. It's funny you say that because we had a team meeting yesterday and everyone had to list their superpower. We were thinking in the same way. My kids played sports growing up. My daughter was a swimmer and my son played competitive hockey at the highest level possible. We just went around the rinks. I never missed a game, and I always made sure I had time for that, blocked that time off. 11% of my business came from the hockey rink. Not just from the team that he was on, right across the city. Then he went on internationally, but that was a big part of it.

When that void left, a very good mentor of mine out of Boston, Anthony Lamacchia, said, "Greg, you have to get involved in the real estate boards." I got involved with our local real estate board. I got involved with CREA, and I'm part of the ambassadors for RE/MAX corporate across Canada as well for their marketing department. That to me helped me elevate my game. I started meeting other REALTORS^® that had like-type experiences, and I've always been involved nationally with referral type of events. When I started to study the foundation of our businesses and the causes that REALTORS^® do, all the community work, that really helped me refocus because I wasn't in the rinks anymore. I wasn't at the pools. I was like, "Okay, what do I do next?" I think Tony's had some big roles in his own board and has been president. That is to me, gives back a lot to me. I just like meeting people that have the same vision of making sure our industry is as professional as possible, that we generate professional REALTORS^®, and that it's understood. That's from the federal, down to the municipal, down to our community, through our boards. I'm really enjoying that part. It's re-energized me to be focused.

Angie: Coaching other agents as well, right?

Greg: Absolutely. I get to coach eight different agents. Our team is nine. I coach eight different agents every morning at 8:30 and that's regenerated me as well.

Angie: One hundred percent.

Shaun: Guys, when you talk about your personal brand and your brand as a professional, there's got to be some crossover there. How does that personal brand and the professional brand work together when working with other REALTORS^®, for example? Tony.

Tony: Because we've been talking about how important your brand is and how consumers know what it is they're getting when they meet you face-to-face, it is just as important in the real estate community. What do other REALTORS^® think of you? What do they know of you? When you are working together, what's their experience going to be? Let's face it, sometimes people have a bad brand. Sometimes REALTORS^® like, "Oh my goodness, I don't want to deal with that guy or gal because the last transaction was a nightmare." It behooves us to maintain a brand that we work well with others. We play well with others in the sandbox.

Shaun: Are there rules in the sandbox? Are there etiquette? Tell me a bit about that, Greg.

Greg: There's definite etiquette, and that's almost your secret sauce. What I mean by that is if you have etiquette and I coach my team on it being etiquette, part of that is communication. Part of that is trust. Let's say you're in a situation where there's three offers, there's five offers, maybe this is just two, and you're going with, which REALTOR^®-- both the offers are very similar. Having that trust from the other agent that they can say to their customer, I know this agent from the Henry team in Ottawa can take this across the finish line. Everybody wants their customer to have a wonderful experience, whether they're representing the buyer or seller.

There are certain agents that could take across the finish line, and you have that trust that it'll happen. You want that to happen. You don't want at the last minute it falls through because somebody wasn't able to deal with the lawyers, someone who wasn't able to deal with the home inspectors. Nobody coached that person along the way. Then you're just left holding the bag. Now the house isn't sold, you're back on the market. Who can get you across the finish line? It all comes down to communication. It all comes down to understanding etiquette as a professional REALTOR^®. Those that do succeed and go a little farther than--

Tony: By the way, I believe that this is not a domain that is only for the 25 or 30-year REALTORS^®. I have worked with some fantastic newer agents who have imparted that sense of confidence, where I've been able to say, "You know what? He or she has only been in for two or three years, but I've dealt with them, and holy cow, they can make it across the finish line."

Greg: I like the way you talk about that, Tony, because as a veteran agent, I've been in the market 25 years, I like helping other agents. I don't want them to make a mistake in front of their clients. The interest will be of my client first, but I will coach that other agent to make sure that they realize that this is what etiquette is. One of the biggest things for me was when you have a multiple offers.

I remember in COVID, we'd have 15 or 12, and before the end of the night, I called every agent that brought me an offer to thank them for bringing me an offer. I didn't text them. I called them, said, "I'm sorry, they work with another offer. It's such a pleasure to have the opportunity to work with you. Thank you. Can't wait to do another offer with you in the future.

Angie: Wow.

Greg: Keep the door open."

Shaun: What's an example of what not to do in that situation, Angie?

Angie: Well, one of my rules is that if I'm going to a listing presentation competing, usually it's three agents, two or three agents. I always ask the family that is interviewing me, I don't want to know who I am competing against. I don't want my decision to be, oh my God. I just want to go authentic with my listing presentation and tell them what I can do for them. Of course, I love winning.

Most of the time I get the listing, but I just don't want to say, "Oh I'm competing against this person or another person." Something very important as well in this regard is when things go wrong, the amount of times I have paid for TVs, for Sonos system, for repair like refrigerators, that's also huge in the industry.

That when something goes wrong, that you have as well, the budget and the will to fix it. With no questions asked because it's part of your reputation and your branding as a REALTOR^®. In the future, they are going to remember, "Oh my God, I remember the REALTOR^®." Then when the TV was taken or when the window coverings were taken, she brought the TV to us, right?

Shaun: Is there something that REALTORS^® do on the regular that is really frowned upon? I'm just curious because I know we're focusing on the positives, and we are flush with positive with this group for sure. I think if I'm a REALTOR^® and I'm watching, I'm like, if I knew what not to do, and-- because there might be blind spots. What are those things that people may be unaware of that they're doing that they could learn from this conversation and say, "Okay, I will never go down that road."

Tony: Don't let your ego get in the way.

Shaun: How do you mean?

R: Again, they watch it on TV.

Angie: It's not a power position.

Tony: It's not a power position. Agents sometimes will try to exert some form of power or an ego trip that isn't there. They're writing checks that they can't cash. We must always remember that we are looking after the best interest of our client. Sometimes agents get in the way because they have to win or they feel like they have to win, and they're not letting their clients get what they want. We can see that every once in a while. Let's not forget who we work for. Who is the client? We're in service of the client.

The other thing too, by the way, Greg's 25 years in, I'm 34 years, Angie's 13 years. One of the things that we have as agents who have been around for a bit now, there is a responsibility that we help newer agents. We inspire them so that they go, "Oh my goodness, I just did a deal with Angie. She was fantastic. I want to be like her." or "I will never forget my dealings with Greg because he made me feel comfortable and helped me get the deal through." We have a responsibility as experienced agents to impart that on others.

Greg: You'll get so many more deals if you leave the other REALTOR^® with a positive experience. No matter what their ego is, kill them with kindness, feed them communication. That makes you step up, and it'll last. That'll come back and grow for you.

Shaun: It's great lessons as a human being, too.

Tony: Yes.

Angie: Totally, and when an agent, like new agent, has a $3 million sale or like a-- I always call them as well. "Congratulations, that's huge." I'm happy for them. It's nice.

Tony: I am certain Greg's heard this and probably Angie as well, because I have too, when an agent calls and says, "Wow, I saw it was your listing and I'm so happy to be working with you."

Angie: Oh, that's the best, yes.

Tony: Right?

Angie: Totally.

Greg: They know that you'll pick up the phone. It works the other way, too, that Tony's going to. There's two listings on the street, they're both the same model, but they'll go to yours because they know you're going to answer the phone, they know you'll work the deal. You'll know that the customer will get to the finish line. That's so important.

Shaun: Angie, did I hear you cook?

Angie: I cook Mexican food, and I have won people over meals. I wanted to share that my big event every year I sponsor a salsa dance festival. We had 200 people dancing at the pavilion last year. It's about providing a happy experience as well. It's just the emotions and the people being happy dancing salsa, bachata, merengue. I dance as a hobby with the champion, with Dancing with the Stars, with Gerald Koch. I learned how to dance salsa in Canada, believe it or not. I get on. Totally.

Shaun: That's so funny. That does say a lot about Canadian culture, though. We are a great country.

Angie: Totally, totally. I sponsor that event. Again, it's not like a sales event. It's a salsa experience, and people they are so grateful. They go and want to talk to me and say thank you just for the experience. I never was like, "Oh, if you need me, like if you are selling or buying, call me." I don't even think about it. I think there is a misperception about REALTORS^® are a salesperson and we're always like trying to sell. I think it's opposite at the end of the day.

Greg: Just be yourself. Just be yourself. Speak your own language. You'll attract your own audience.

Angie: Totally.

Tony: Angie, things like that. When REALTORS^® put on events, it is not about the selling yourself. What you've really done is it's a gift to the community because-

Angie: Totally. Be happy.

Tony: -without your support, without you putting it on, it may not or probably will not have happened. Again, another great example of what we as real estate people can do in our own communities.

Shaun: That's amazing. That is inspiring across the board, especially thinking about-- I come from a small community. My town is 350 people originally, that's where I was raised. Community events are so important. It's not about, "Okay, we're going there to mingle, to do drum up business." It's truly just to be a human being connected with the tribe and connecting. I love that.

Tony: People get that. The community gets that. When they see that enough, and they see that as, yes, and then they get to know you and who you are. That's when the time comes for them to buy or sell, they can't think of anyone else but Angie. Right?

Shaun: Right. Right. There's a magnetism there. Especially, I understand, because I love Mexican food, Angie. I love Mexican food.

Angie: The happiness. I'll cook for you whenever you visit in Squamish.

Shaun: Yes. Yes.

Greg: Put me on the list.

Angie: Yes. Absolutely. Invite you to the event.

Greg: We said earlier though, you can't go dark. You have to be out there in your community. You have to be visible. Whether it's going to a hockey rink or a soccer match, or maybe it's the triathlon or the run through your community, make sure you're visible in your community. It's so easy that we give all our energy all day long, and you just want to come through the door at night, drop your briefcase at the front door, and go, "I don't want to talk to anyone for the rest of the day."

You got to regenerate. You got to be there for your family when you come through the door. I'm all about leaving my briefcase at the front door, spend some time with your family, be where your feet are, but make sure you're out there supporting your community in every way possible.

Tony: You got me thinking of an agent that I mentored for a short time because he was struggling. It's amazing because we determined that he spent his entire day in his home office on the computer, doing work-related things, but he was never out. Like you said, you can't go dark. It is very difficult to meet people and build lasting relationships if you are not out there and face to face shaking hands or whatever, fist bumping nowadays, whatever it is we do. You need to be out there, and you need to be seen.

I get the fact that some people, personality-wise, maybe they're not the types that go to black tie galas or whatnot, but you still need to be out there and perhaps finding groups of people that you are more comfortable with. I chatted with another REALTOR^® a little while ago. He's one of these Dungeons and Dragons game guys and everything. I said, "Find your friends." It's a community, right?

Angie: Totally.

Tony: There's communities all over.

Greg: Yes.

Shaun: Speaking to that, I don't know if you guys heard, but a few years ago, there was this global pandemic that happened all over the world that was such a monumental shift in all of what you're talking about in terms of like the whole thing was to go dark. You've got to go dark. You're not allowed outside. How did that impact the REALTOR^® game? Then how has it changed over the last five to 10 years? The idea of branding and was that event something that realigned with a new way of doing things at all? Talk a little bit about that. Yes. Greg?

Greg: We've been doing listing videos since 09. We were already doing virtual. When it got dark like that, when people cocooned, they actually went on their computers. We stole market share. We became the voice. We were out there. Here's how we're going to guide you through this. Here's how people are cocooning. I believe that's going to happen right now with these tariffs. I believe people are going to cocoon again and create the walls around their fortress and invest in their homes or invest in their lifestyle or say, "I'm not waiting for anything else."

They'll invest in their homes literally. I think we're going to come out of this. It'll be another bit of a spike in the market. What's going to happen here is when that happens, if you're not out in your community, be the voice in your community. If you can't go and meet 20 people a day, or you can't make 20 phone calls a day, make a video on what about the real estate market that goes out and reaches thousands of people in the first 24 hours.

That's another relatively inexpensive way to get your voice out there and be part of the community when you can't be face-to-face or belly-to-belly with them. There's nothing better than being face-to-face. I think that's the most valuable, but make sure you're out there at least on social media.

Shaun: Angie, how have you seen it change over the last 10 years?

Angie: For me, it was a blessing. When it was like a pandemic Squamish. I doubled my productivity in pandemic because we were a bedroom community. Squamish before 51% of the population of the working force commuted, 21% to Whistler, 30% to Vancouver. When they found that they can work from home, everybody wanted to cash out on their investments, like in Vancouver or their homes in Vancouver, and move to Squamish because they can get a bigger house, because we're 25, 30% less price per square foot.

They moved to bigger places that they can have. The thing that they asked me the most during pandemic was a house with an office for him and an office for her. They needed a three to four-bedroom places. Instead of living in a condo in Cole Harbour in downtown Vancouver, they moved to Squamish. I remember we sold 2020, 63 houses, and I cannot say we were not prepared because we're always prepared, but it took us by surprise that everybody wanted to move here. The challenge to do the virtual showings.

What I did, I had a building, I was selling 15 condos, and then I remember I got reprimanding, like, "You cannot do like open houses, et cetera." Then I was like, "It's a virtual open house." I went to the building, stay at the door with the mask, and open all the doors so then people can get themselves in. You had to be creative. It was a good thing for Squamish because before we were a bedroom community, and now we're like a destination, people like to live here.

Greg: This is going to be another tough time. There's no doubt about it. That's the elephant in the room right now. There's an economic uncertainty here. This is where we really shine. This is where the true agents really shine-

Angie: With experiences.

Greg: Experience. I love how you say you doubled. I'm not trying to compare numbers, but our whole team got tripled first quarter because we tripled our business during COVID. We didn't stick in our pajamas every day. We got out there, we were out there. Everybody had to show up in our own team meeting every morning at 8:30, dressed for success, shower-ready. Being there and staying in the focus, we were essential in COVID.

We were ruled essential. People needed us to buy and sell homes. People still needed a roof over their head, and the agents that understood that and really jumped on that. The easiest way to do it was through social media and through video. Then like Angie said, do virtual tours of the home. People still needed to buy homes, and we were there for them.

Shaun: I quadruple whatever, guys. I am so full. I quadruple than vax. I am so full of vax. It's unbelievable. If you guys need any, let me know. That's amazing. Now, Tony, you've been around forever. You started by sending carrier pigeons with leaflets or whatever, smoke signals, back in the day.

Tony: Pretty well.

Shaun: How has it changed over the years for you? What have been the biggest differences between when you started and today?

Tony: Talking about the pandemic, that was a point in time, and I know for many it hurt and it was difficult. When I got in the business, fax machines were a big deal. We were running over to people's houses and getting them to sign thermal paper. Remember the paper turns black over time, and it got to the point where REALTORS^® they were confused. They're like, "This can't be legal, this can't be legitimate." That was technology making its way in. Piggybacking on what Greg said.

The interesting thing is whether it's COVID or whether it's tariffs or whatever it is, it's interesting because as an industry, the real estate industry, we are actually really well positioned to adapt and adapt quickly to the needs of consumers. That can't be said of other industries, unfortunately. We know that because tons of people lost their jobs. As an industry, that is something that if we have done what we're supposed to be doing, we're talking about branding, we're talking about community.

When the economy goes kind of sideways or people start getting concerned, it's the people who are entrenched. It's the REALTORS^® who are entrenched in the community, the ones who have already invested in their local community where the dividends come out. Just like Angie and Greg, we were massively busy at that time, and it's because people went to professionals that they knew and trust. That, again, is where the importance of branding comes in, because then people know what they get.

Angie: In COVID, I did a campaign because there was some stages that we couldn't even leave the neighborhood. I went and bought coloring books and crayons and drop off to the neighbors' because the kids were at home with no activities. It was so nice, like the feedback from the neighbors, "Oh my God, my kids have been coloring for hours." Giving the parents a little bit of a break. In those moments of emergencies, when you have to as well, like be creative and shine and think about others, how can you support the situation?

Shaun: I love that. You're just a natural mamacita, you're just like, I have to take care of my family.

Angie: My people.

Shaun: I love that so much. We've covered a lot of topics, we've covered a lot of ground. There's so many things from your own personal experiences and some great personal stories, by the way, of actual real-life things. For REALTORS^® who are watching this right now, looking to develop a brand, looking to start or restart or rethink, I want to go through each of you. Tell me what would be the thing that you would say to these REALTORS^® who are really trying to develop that brand?

Angie: I always recommend that they work with somebody, that they find a mentor or a coach. When I started, I started with Maggi Thornhill, that is like a tycoon real estate in Whistler, and she's very well known. She sells over $300 million every year. I had the privilege to work with her, but she's very busy. I really recommend teams.

If you're new in the business, have somebody to pave the way. For me as an ESL, it was very tough in the beginning to read contracts, to understand the complexity of the subjects, how to protect clients. It only comes with experience and repetition. Also, if you have somebody mentoring you, that's huge.

Shaun: Yes. Tell me about that, Angie. Actually, I'm curious about your very first week. Your first year essentially, tell me about that and what it was like. You didn't have a mentor, you had nobody to help you, you're ESL, you're a relatively new Canadian. I don't know how long you were in Canada at that time-

Angie: Yes, three years.

Shaun: -but talk a bit about that.

Angie: First, when I went to UBC to get my real estate license, the first time I wrote the exam, I failed. I didn't pass the exam because I couldn't read fast enough. It's encouraging because a lot of agents are like, "Oh my God, the exam is difficult." I was like, "Imagine in a different language, it's more difficult." I got a very proud 53. It's perseverance. I joined the business because I wanted to have flexibility to pick up my kids at school, and I wanted to manage my own schedule.

Little did I know that it was seven days a week. The first three years I didn't make any money in real estate. I had a part-time job. I had another job and I supported myself with international students. I have nine international students. Don't think a lot of people see me, and they were like, "Oh my God, you got into real estate in the perfect timing." I was like, "No, I didn't." They see the success story and they don't see the struggle.

The first time I hosted an open house in Whistler for Maggi Thornhill, I was so excited. I printed everything, and I was rushing there. My daughter was three, my son was eight, so the nanny was late. I forgot the signs. I forgot everything. I just went with myself. Then I called Maggi. I was like, "Maggi, I forgot everything." She was like, "Don't worry, darling." She went and put the signs and brought me a latte. Oh my God. Ask me how many times I forgot anything.

I learned the lesson. The first three years were like very, very tough. I started to be more successful when I left my part-time job at London Drugs, and they were like, "This is it. I'm going to do this full time." That was I will say when I started to be successful or selling because having a part-time job and the students, if you don't do this full time, it's going to be a struggle.

Shaun: Looking back, would you do anything different?

Angie: I will have worked with somebody in a team before, being somebody's assistant maybe. Maybe you need to have certain cushion of money in order to start real estate if this is your only source of income, because don't expect that the first year or the first six months you're going to make any money.

Shaun: Right. Greg, how about you?

Greg: It's a long-term game.

Angie: Totally.

Greg: I hired a coach, John Chaplick. I mastermind with him every Monday night, and I have a personal call with him every Wednesday morning. It was a game-changer for me. I hired him going in when we hit COVID and I was like, "Uh-oh, this is different." Having a mentor like that, having someone that coaches, a lifestyle coach and a real estate coach just to bounce things off of. It allows me to coach my team. Every morning at 8:30 we do a coach huddle every morning, five days a week.

I've also reached out to those agents that have been in the business a while. When you get the opportunity to mentor, to give back to younger people or newer people in the business, it is so rewarding. I know that Tony's a coach as well. You learn more from that. It's just like going to a presentation at a convention and being up on stage. Trust me, you get more than the audience does out of it. When you give back to people getting in this business to make sure they avoid some of the mistakes you made.

I have a number of agents that are younger that have been in the business for less than five years, but have 10 years' worth of knowledge because I've coached them through it. Here's how you avoid the mistake. Here's how you make the customer experience a wonderful customer experience. Here's how you put the customer first. Here's how you use empathy. Here's how to avoid being a salesperson.

All that stuff that took years as we talked, as Angie said, if you don't have somebody to get you over those initial hurdles, it's really tough to get going. When you've been in the business and you start giving back to others, it's even more rewarding and it's more beneficial to your own business. You get better. I think that's part of being somebody that's a veteran in the business. We have to make sure that everybody else has a professional framework and a professional comes across as a professional that our industry needs them to.

Shaun: I love that. That's very wise to think in that way. Actually, I said to my kid, I learned this saying years ago, and I tried it out on my five-year-old because I was trying to share with her that she needs to teach her little sister how to do stuff. I said, "Because Mattis, to teach is to learn twice." She looked at me and she threw pudding in my lap. I don't know if that will sink in, but I think this idea of to teach is to learn twice is amazing.

Now, that's how advice you give people when they're first starting out. Tony, when we talk about developing your brand as a new REALTOR^® or as a REALTOR^® who's maybe rethinking their own brand, what would be the most important thing that you think they should focus on?

Tony: Well, first of all, I agree with both Greg and Angie. It’s easy for me to say, I am a coach. I coach for Richard Robbins International out of Toronto. I have for 15 years, and I have seen people develop. As Greg said, it's being able to take the struggles and the pains that a seasoned agent learned over 10 years and help REALTORS^® do that in three. To condense those things, that's what coaching is all about. To be a coach, absolutely. You're learning twice, 100%. It keeps us accountable as well too, because what we are helping coaching members with are things that we too need to be practicing as well.

Back to your question, Shaun, about what somebody new should be doing. I think it is crucial to build your tribe. To have people around you, because the problem about this business is it's lonely. It's a lonely business. We are in silos. We are always alone. REALTORS^® are always feeling like there's no support. Let's face it guys, it's not rocket science. There are thousands of people who have done this before you, who have struggled or have had slow months or who haven't seen a paycheck for six months, but they have found ways.

The key, as Greg has said, is to tap into people who have done it and say, "What can I do? What are the things I have to do?" Be open to learning. That's the key as well. There's people who say, "I want to get into coaching. I want to learn." When the coach says, "Consider this, this, this, and this," they go, "Well, I can't do that. Oh no." If they're close to learning, they're not going to advance.

Greg: Be coachable.

Tony: Be coachable, Greg. Getting back to finding your tribe, because we've talked about this, we talked about merging your passions. Is it sports? Is it church? Is it school? What are the things-- It's funny, the show producer here, Mike, when we were setting up yesterday, he said to me, he goes, "You've got stuff in the background that's going to be on screen. Are you sure you want that?" For anyone who's seen it, I've got all this sci-fi paraphernalia. I have signed a Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill stuff. I'm a huge sci-fi nerd. I am not ashamed to admit it I am a sci--

Shaun: Tony, can I interrupt you?

Tony: Yes.

Shaun: I have been in Carrie Fisher's bathtub. I'm not even joking. I'm not even joking.

Greg: Just got a visual.

Shaun: I've been there and she wasn't home. It was so wild. I was working on a tv show in California, and then I was working with the Farrelly brothers. This one of the guys that was working on that show was good friends with Carrie Fisher and we ended up shooting a little thing in her house. I was in her house.

Greg: So cool.

Shaun: She actually had action figures of the original A New Hope, Princess Leia's. Ah, so I just had to share that. See, now let's buy and sell a house together. See, that's how that works.

Tony: That's just the thing is to find people who share the same-- I'm involved in groups, both REALTOR^® groups and also-- one of my dear friends is a fellow who owns a paraphernalia-- I was going to say paraphernalia, sci-fi paraphernalia shop in Victoria. He's got a toy museum, the Canadian Toy Museum. It's been a fantastic relationship. He asked me about real estate things every once in a while, but that's not the reason why we hang out. It's because we have shared interests.

Again, to have your own specific groups and to be proud of them and to also work within it, build your tribe. It could be professionals, it could be your trusted lawyer, your trusted accountant, your business networking groups. You need people to survive. It sort of goes back to what we said earlier. We still need to be good at what we do, we still need to have a reputation, people still need to want to deal with us. It is important that on a daily basis we perform these tasks with a level of skill such that our reputation precedes us.

Shaun: Yes. Your brand reputation obviously interchanges with your personal reputation. That's the other thing too. I can imagine if you're in a community, like there's not a lot of room for outside-the-box messing up, if I may say that. You guys have to be-- that's a lot of pressure, isn't it, guys? Greg, you're in the Ottawa community, everybody knows you there. How much do you have to be aware of that, too, your social side?

Greg: Always, always. I went to the hockey rink at 6:00 AM in the morning with a suit, because if I didn't, and I was in my sweats, people were like, "Is real estate not good?" No, a lot of my business came from there. I dressed up like this when I went at six o'clock in the morning. What I would say to new agents is you have to be visible, but you also have to communicate. It's great to communicate on social media. It's part of it. It's great to communicate by email and text, but pick up the phone. Pick up the phone. When you get an email or you get a text, it's an invite to call them.

That picking up the phone and having that one-on-one relationship is almost as good as sitting in front of them in a coffee shop or at their kitchen table. You need to be in front of them. Don't be afraid to call them, stay communicating with them. Make sure they understand how deep you are in their relationship and how important they are to you. When that sign is out front and your sign is up front and their friends and neighbors are asking, "Oh, you went with-- that's a team I would have gotten with," and they're quite proud of it. They feel like they have a relationship with you, and they do. It's deep.

Tony: By the way, it is not just when you are helping them buy or sell. We have to remind our clients, and as agents also have to abide by the fact that we are their trusted agents for longer than they're just buying or selling real estate.

Greg: You nailed it.

Angie: Also your glass has to be full. It's not only coaching and real estate. I took a five-day course with Tony Robbins that changed my life as well. It's also having a lot to give. The more like activities or hobbies and-- the more you grow, the more you have to give. It's not only real estate. it's like we're an integral part of the community.

Shaun: Guys, what an amazing conversation this has been. I really hope REALTORS^® who are watching this are taking away from Mount Olympus here. We have some of the best and the best and the best. I have learned so much today. I'm hearing authenticity. I'm hearing community. I'm hearing all of these incredible things that I'm sure REALTORS^® who are watching this are going to take away and put in their toolkit. Guys, thanks so much for joining me on REAL TIME.

Angie: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Tony: Thanks for having us.

Greg: Thank you, Shaun. You're great.

Shaun: Go Canada, go. Go Canada, go. I guess that old saying is true, your reputation precedes you. If your brand is a reflection of your reputation and vice versa, then making sure your brand is true to you is key. Authenticity will get you very, very far.

Thanks so much for joining us today. As always, if you like today's episode, make sure you give us a review or a like or a smash or whatever you do. Give us a good review on your preferred podcast platform. Today's episode, REAL TIME, is brought to you by The Canadian Real Estate Association (CREA), production courtesy of Alphabet^® Creative. I'm Shaun Majumder. Thanks so much, and we'll see you next time on REAL TIME.

I'm just saying, as a Star Trek fan, you're going to love it. It was a great episode.

Greg: your ears and stuff?

Shaun: No. That's Vulcan. Who is this guy? Who is this guy?

Angie: Break them up.

Tony: I can't speak for him. I can't speak for him.

Greg: It was in Hockey Night in Canada, I can't help it.