Shannae Ingleton Smith – How to Elevate Your Influence Online

Erin Davis: Welcome to REAL TIME, the podcast for REALTORS^® and all of us who are fascinated with the buying, the selling, the great storytelling. My name is Erin Davis, and you're going to love this episode number 35 because it's about influencing social media; getting your name, your brand, your story out there, and you don't have to be a Spielberg or even a Kardashian to do it. It's a hyper-digital world. Many brands are finding success tapping into and nurturing niche communities.

On this episode, Shannae Ingleton Smith joins REAL TIME to help you as a REALTOR^® build a niche of your own. Shannae is President and CEO of Kensington Grey. It's a boutique influencer agency rooted in diversity, and she's an expert in content creation and brand storytelling. In addition to building a niche, she also has valuable advice for you on what platform fits you personally, on how to strike an effective balance between telling your own story and having others, like influencers, champion your brand for you and even what you might expect it to cost you. Let's dig in.

Shannae, thanks so much for joining us today on REAL TIME. For those who may not be familiar with you yet, and it seems from your numbers like not too many are unfamiliar with you, let's start with a quick backgrounder on you, could we?

Shannae Ingleton Smith: Yes, of course. I started off with a background in big media, working for one of Canada's largest media conglomerates. Over time, things started to move from traditional media, so like television, radio, print, et cetera, to digital and then to social media. As my career evolved, so did my passion for social media. In Canada, we're very fortunate enough to have a year off for mat leave.

While I was on mat leave with my daughter Kensington, the concept of the agency, Kensington Grey, was formed. Shortly, about a year and a half after returning to work after having her, I left my job and started Kensington Grey Agency, which is an influencer management agency that focuses on diverse creators, particularly Black creators. It's my life's passion and something I'm really proud of.

Erin: Wonderful, and to have it named after your daughter too, Kensington. That's so beautiful.

Shannae: Thank you.

Erin: What is your business mission then, Shannae?

Shannae: Our business mission is to empower Black people, to empower Black voices, and to ensure that Black creators in particular are at the top of their game from an education perspective, and to ensure that they're not leaving any money on the table, and they're being paid fairly and equitably. With my background in media, as well as my passion for this space, I'd sort of married the best of both worlds.

Erin: It sounds like it. I was looking at some pictures on your Instagram feed, and there was a mug there with quite a striking message. Do you remember what it said?

Shannae: Yes, pay me fairly and don't just use me for diversity clout.

Erin: Diversity clout. I thought that that was just perfect. How do you think your message is getting across? Do you feel like you're really breaking through with your push for diversity?

Shannae: Yes, absolutely. Diversity is definitely not a trend for me or for anyone at our company. We've believed in diversity and have been touting diversity, whether it be literally or figuratively, I feel like, my whole life. With everything that happened in 2020 with George Floyd, I think that a lot of companies caught up with where we were already at. As a result of that, I think that real change is happening.

I think that that time, everyone was at home during the pandemic, and we witnessed the tragedy with George Floyd, and everyone- it was just an opportunity for everyone to just really reflect and to see where they could be doing better. A lot of both organizations, companies, peoples, communities, really stepped up to the plate and have made long-term transformative change, and I think it's a beautiful thing to see.

Erin: Well, what types of clients do you work with?

Shannae: We work with all kinds of clients. Our creators are in every category you could think of, from fashion, to beauty, to lifestyle, to parenting. Think of every brand or any brand that might want to work with creators in those space, and we've probably worked with them. Whether it's Walmart, whether it's Home Depot, whether it is Louis Vuitton, or it is Valentino, or The Gap, Old Navy, we've literally worked with every brand you could ever imagine.

Erin: That's incredible. How has the influencer world evolved, Shannae, from celebrity endorsements on TV, late-night TV talk show hosts selling ALPO dog food because that was part of their shtick, right? In some ways, they were the original influencers. It's been a long road to where we are now, hasn't it?

Shannae: I definitely think it's been a long road. I think that influencers have always existed, but I think that it's a little bit more literal in today's terms. I feel like back then, celebrity endorsements were- it was very clear that you were being sold to, or that the celebrity was doing whatever they were doing for the money, whether it's selling dog food or whatever. Whereas I think with influencer marketing, people have the ability to talk about things that they would already be talking about but being paid for that.

That's where the importance of authenticity and only endorsing things that you would genuinely use in your real life and that you have used before and that you would genuinely recommend. Audiences have become very smart, and they can sniff out when it's not an authentic organic partnership. I think that the new element of authenticity and realness and lifting the fourth wall or lifting the veil is what- I guess is what differentiates creators of today versus the celebrities of yesterday.

Erin: Yes, I think that you bring up a good point there, talking about whether that talk show host actually used ALPO at home with his own dog or dogs. I think now it's expected or sniffed out if somebody doesn't use the product that they're endorsing. It's expected. If somebody is-- For example, recently the whole brouhaha about the influencer who was plugging a mascara, and it turned out that she had fake lashes on. That can really take you down in a hurry. That authenticity, not only is it sensed, but it's expected.

Shannae: Yes, I agree. Well, it's all about – Building a community is all about building trust. In order for you to have a successful and an engaged and growing community, they need to be dialed in and they need to really trust you. Once you lose or you've broken that trust with them, they tune out and they disengage.

Erin: Yes, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a moment to lose it. You got to be so careful, right? You, Shannae, your career, and in a nutshell, you summed it up very quickly, and a very broad expanse of experience in your case. Tell us the one thing you would like to disabuse people of when it comes to their ideas of what an influencer is. If you meet somebody at a cocktail party and say, "Well, I'm an influencer," what is the thing that you're afraid they're thinking that just isn't true?

Shannae: We're not just self-absorbed people that are walking around taking selfies. Some of us are. Some of us actually are, but there are a lot of people who just take the power of their platform very seriously and the influence that they have very seriously, and they really only use it to bring and add value to the lives of the people that follow them. We're a new form of media. We're the new magazine, we're the new talk show, we're the new radio station where people tune in to find out about the things that they love, to sometimes find out about current events, just to find out what's happening in the world. We're a new source of, yes, media.

Erin: Yes. A new town square, as it were.

Shannae: Exactly.

Erin: 1.8 billion. Now that is one crowded town square, and who wouldn't want that many followers? Let me tell you. That's how many page views there were at REALTOR.ca last year, and that's 121 million visitors and a half-billion visits. No wonder REALTOR.ca is the number one real estate platform in Canada. Now, back to Shannae Ingleton Smith of Kensington Grey, talking the birth, growth and power of the digital.

Now that people know what an influencer is and is not, when did businesses start seeing the value of influencers as a part of a buyable social media strategy, that it wasn't just kids doing amazing dance numbers in their basements? When did that evolution begin?

Shannae: The power of digital, I think, has been happening since the early 2000s, but I think that it really, really blew up around 2013- the early 2010s, like 2012, 2013, 2014, where companies that couldn't afford to spend a million dollars on a spot in the Super Bowl, or to buy a page in the Toronto Star for $75,000, they're like, where else could I put my money? They're putting it into social media, and they were seeing real results, seeing better results, in fact, than using some traditional media sources like newspaper or magazine or sometimes radio. I think that once they started seeing the results, they just kept on coming back, and they haven't looked back since.

Erin: Why should those who are on the fence make the leap? Why, do you think? What would you say to those who are still saying, "I don't know. I'm not sure because I've always done it this way"?

Shannae: I think you have to go where people's attentions are. If you want to get people's attention, look at where their attentions are right now. It's in their phone, it's on their laptop, it's on their screens. People are using traditional media as a source of their news information and purchasing decisions less and less. Traditional media is losing relevance by the day, and social media is honestly gaining relevance by the day as the source for that. You have to just get with the program or you'll be at a significant disadvantage as a business owner, I would say.

Erin: Yes, and influencers now have this down to a science. Because we all know that social media is a powerful tool for finding and building a community of brand loyalists. Can you explain the pros and cons of targeting a niche audience as opposed to casting that wide net, taking out that full-page ad, or trying to get on the evening news in the middle of a newscast and having your ad in there or something, when niching down, if you will, is valuable?

Shannae: Niching down is valuable because you're speaking to your people. You're speaking to people who are almost a complete and perfect alignment with the service or the products that you have to offer. There's very little wastage, if you will, when the people that are seeing your content, especially with platforms on social media like TikTok, where the algorithm is so, so smart that it connects you with people who have a specific interest with the exact things that you're talking about. You find your people, you find your community, you find your target audience a lot faster, and you're able to get to your goal that you're trying to achieve a lot faster as well.

Erin: Okay, you brought up TikTok. Now, I want to talk to you as would-be-influencer me to influencer you. In total, I've got about 100,000 followers on various platforms, but I'll tell you that TikTok is the one that gets the least of my attention. You've just opened my eyes to something that I didn't know, Shannae, and maybe for people listening today too. That even if you only have followers numbering in the hundreds on TikTok as opposed to, say, I have 30,000 or whatever on Twitter, that if I put out stuff, TikTok is going to get it to the right people, instead of trying to build up all of those followers right out of the gate. Am I hearing this right?

Shannae: You are hearing me correctly. TikTok is an app that is built for discoverability. Most of the people that see your content are actually people that don't follow you. It's people that find you on the For You page because you're talking about things that interest them, or that they've searched before or that they've talked about before. The algorithm is extremely sophisticated, more sophisticated than any other social media platform that I've ever seen before. That's why it's so easy for people to just literally sign up for the app and within, honestly, a few months, gain tens of thousands, sometimes even hundreds of thousands of followers because the algorithm finds your people so fast and with almost expert precision.

Erin: Wow, that's amazing. Thank you for that. Hopefully, a light went on for a lot of people here. Again, what I've learned from you just partway through our talk today, Shannae, is that you don't have to be dressing up and doing musical numbers or doing a tutorial on makeup or anything like that. It doesn't have to be that. Again, although TikTok has a reputation for being flashy and fun and really sticky, in terms of content, it's again down to authenticity. Sure, there's the flash and the fun, but authenticity works on that platform too. Is that what I'm hearing?

Shannae: Yes, there's definitely something for everyone. It's not like the previous platforms where you have to- like it's a struggle to find followers and to be discovered. The velocity in which you can grow on TikTok is way faster than any other platform right now. It's because you just show up as yourself, then people that are interested in you and are like-minded will find you because most of the people that see your content are people that do not follow you. That's what makes the app so exciting.

Erin: When we return, how you can find your niche, and then dive right in and really touch your followers where they live, sometimes literally. Not all influencers are selling, just like you should be doing, about the good works you take part in in your community. Share your stories and use the #REALTORSCare, and let everybody know about your good works, great causes and you. Now, back to REAL TIME and Shannae Ingleton Smith.

Okay, so how do you think that a REALTOR^® can find their niche and use that knowledge to grow their business, Shannae?

Shannae: Depending on whatever it is that you specialize in, whether it's the luxury space or the first-time homebuyer space, think about what that client would want to know more about and just talk about those things. By doing that, you're providing value for that specific audience. If it's like the first-time homebuyer space, maybe you can talk about some of the tax benefits that they can take advantage of when buying a first-time home, or different hacks on how to save for a down payment. Things of that nature. You can talk about interest rates.

If you are focused in the luxury space, then maybe you can talk about more luxury or first-world problems, if you will. You can talk about homes with a wow factor. You can talk about the things that people that are in that spending bracket would be interested in. Then as a result of that, you'll attract people that could potentially be clients of yours down the line.

Erin: Really, amplify your strengths and share the messages that you have learned and all of your wisdom. Do people ever worry about other people taking their ideas, though, Shannae? That must happen all the time on social media, right? If you've got, say, a REALTOR^® who's got a TikTok channel that's all about those luxury houses, the one that's got the ice cream maker in the bedroom and that sort of thing, and yes, that exists, I'd be afraid if I did something like that on my account, somebody might borrow that idea. What do you think of that?

Shannae: I think that there are very few things that are truly, truly original anymore, and I think that there's a lot of people repurposing and doing things in their own way. However, one thing about TikTok is they're big on accountability. They're big on giving credit. If you are outright copying word for word, bar for bar what another REALTOR^® is doing or what another person on TikTok is doing, the TikTok community will find you and they will call you out.

Like you said earlier, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation but a moment to lose it. If you're doing things that call your integrity into question, like copying, or things that are unethical like not giving credit where credit is due, or not giving inspiration credit if you were inspired by somebody else's content, then you'll find yourself in hot water, and then you will lose that trust from your audience that is highly coveted and so hard to build. If you're inspired by another REALTOR^®, if you're inspired by somebody else's content, just say that. You can say, "Hey, I saw this on so-and-so's page the other day. I loved what he was doing. This is my take on the same issue."

Yes, definitely don't try and pass off somebody else's work or somebody else's ideas as your own. Give credit where credit is due. Then when you are inspired by somebody else, try to find a way to make it into your own. There's really only one you, and that's always going to be your superpower and lean into that as much as you can.

Erin: That's fantastic. I think that maybe you just allayed a whole bunch of fears that people have had about, "Well, there's so many people out there on these platforms, what do I have new to offer?" You have you to offer, and that is a really important message. Thank you for that. Now, Shannae, do you have any specific platforms that you prefer for different messaging? I'll go back to myself as an example here. I'll put some of my content on Facebook and Instagram, others on TikTok and Twitter. How do you decide where best to reach your target audience, or is it more of a touch-them-all kind of approach?

Shannae: Yes, so I would say that Instagram is like the aesthetic, perfect, pristine app where that's where you can share the photos, that's where you can show the final product. Then TikTok is more the unfinished, how I got there. Maybe some of the behind the scenes, or some of just a few snippets and tidbits from your day can be on TikTok because it's short form, it's video, it's casual, it's a little bit more organic.

Then YouTube, for example, would be the deep dive like, "This is how I did it, this is every step that I took, this is the blueprint," where you can really take a deep dive and just really delve into your content. Then I would say things like Twitter and Facebook, you can use those to drive to those other three major platforms, and to just bring awareness and to circle your followers back to those other platforms so that they can check that other content out.

Erin: Nobody knows your brand better than yourself, and it comes back to the authenticity and what we've discussed about the wisdom and experience and the schools of hard knocks that everybody has been through. This is especially true for entrepreneurs like REALTORS^®. Shannae, how do you balance creating your own content versus outsourcing it to digital content creators? A lot of people might be intimidated not knowing even how to use iMovie in their iPhone, or whatever other programs that are so easily downloaded and worked with now. How do you balance that, creating versus outsourcing?

Shannae: Yes. I would say, well, first of all, do the things that bring you joy. If recording and talking to the camera, if you love that and that brings you joy, definitely do that. If you're not a fan of editing, then find an editor. Find somebody who can edit and chop and mix your stuff together in a way that's compelling and entertaining. If you prefer to be behind the camera, maybe some other members of your team prefer to be in front of the camera, and you can be the person that films and maybe edits behind the scene.

Another thing that I think that has really helped me is I try to document as much as possible as opposed to creating. I try to be the content and not orchestrate the content, if you will. If I'm already going on about my day, if I'm already doing things, I can just put an iPhone on a tripod and record that. These are things that I would be doing anyway. As opposed to just creating and the kind of orchestrating something that isn't real, it's just better to document it or have somebody from your team document you doing something that you would already be doing anyway.

Whether that's a house tour, have somebody record you doing a house tour. Maybe it's you sourcing a new neighborhood or sourcing a new client or whatever, you can get those people to capture that behind the scenes, and then you can pull anecdotes from that or pull little clips from that and then just post it up on your social media. Try to document instead of creating as much as possible.

Erin: Document instead of creating. Again, that's more organic, it's more natural, it's more authentic, and there's always editing. We all think we have to be perfect, and sometimes it's the outtakes that are the most memorable and the most real anyway.

Shannae: That's true.

Erin: It's sometimes hard to share them, but they're memorable.

Shannae: Yes, and sometimes if it's scary or hard to share, some of the times that's your best content and your best performing content. Don't be afraid to take risks every once in a while. Everything doesn't have to be always perfect.

Erin: That's true. I will add what my broadcasting guru told me, and she still talks to broadcasters and podcasters around the world, "Be personal, but don't be private." There is a fine line, and you want to go personal, but you always have to respect that privacy that might make people go, "I really didn't need to know that."

Something that you've said too that really connected in your message to us, Shannae, is that the comments, what people have to say about what you're putting out there, your content, that can sometimes tell you when you're going in the right direction or maybe where you should take a bit of a U-turn or a detour.

Shannae: Yes. What we always like to say to our creators is the tea is always in the comments. That will send you in the right direction, that will tell you what you should do next. That will give you ideas for your next video or for your next post because your community will tell you what they want, and pay attention to your comments. It's almost like crowdsourcing for free or doing market research for free.

Erin: Yes, absolutely. Coming up, Shannae Ingleton Smith of Kensington Grey talks about finding the right influencers to help you reach your target audience. #helpfuladvice. Whether you're looking to open up shop in Sherbrooke, or peruse palaces in London, Ontario, of course, you can find just what your heart desires on REALTOR.ca. Oh, and while you're there, open the tab and visit Living Room Blog to read stuff like the most googled questions about real estate answered by REALTORS^®, plus idea-sparking topics like optimizing space in your galley kitchen. Okay, you could be there for a while and that's all right. Kick back in the Living Room Blog section of REALTOR.ca. Now, we're back to Shannae Ingleton Smith on REAL TIME.

Okay, so say I want to find somebody to champion my brand, and if I didn't think it was me, how do you go about finding, Shannae, the right personalities to champion your brand? Where would you begin?

Shannae: I would say that you can start by just going on Instagram or TikTok and going through hashtags that are relevant to your niche, and look for the people that are showing up at the top of those hashtags or reoccurring often in those hashtags and then reach out to them. You can also utilize an agency like a Kensington Grey who represents influencers. You can ask them, "Hey, do you have somebody that likes to talk about this, or do you have somebody that is an expert in that?" Then they'll find somebody or source that person for you, but you can definitely search.

Especially the searchability on platforms like Facebook, on even LinkedIn, on TikTok are superior. The searchability is really sophisticated there. Then on Instagram, it's a little bit harder, but you can also use hashtags on Instagram to just find people who are experts, or who continue to pop up or end up being at the top of those hashtags.

Erin: How does one usually expect to pay an influencer who is not themselves-- If you want to hire somebody, do you pay by clicks and views, or is there a set rate, or generally speaking, how does it work?

Shannae: Typically, influencers don't do a lot for free anymore. In the very beginning, people were just happy to be asked to endorse things, and a lot of people would just do things on barter. Now, for the most part, influencers do expect to be paid. It's different depending on who the influencer is, it's different depending on what your budget is and the relationship you have with them, but it varies.

The general rule, I would say, is that for a post, influencers are typically paid between 3% and 5% of their following per post. Sometimes it's more if it's super niche, or if they have extremely high engagement. Then sometimes it's super less if it's not as niche, or if the client's budget just doesn't permit.

Erin: Interesting. Now, what else should you consider when you're planning, researching and executing an influencer strategy? Because I think a lot of people listening right now are probably getting kind of excited about this whole idea and going, "Yes, okay, I can try this. I can do this. I don't have to orchestrate. I can just create. I can be myself and see what comes of it." What else should you consider when you're doing this?

Shannae: Well, I think that you want to figure out, what is the goal here? Is the goal to sell houses? Is your goal to bring in potential home buyers or home sellers? Is the goal to just raise awareness or build your profile? When you're sourcing creators, you want to find people that have a true and genuine connection to the content and the topic that you are talking about.

You want to source creators that have a true passion for and understanding of real estate or of the neighborhood that you're selling a home in or that you are focused on so that it's authentic and it doesn't feel forced. You want people that feel natural in front of the camera, where when you watch one of their videos, you feel like you're just talking to a friend on FaceTime. You want somebody who's just going to make you feel comfortable, somebody who you feel like you're just out having a drink with. I think that those are the best ways of connecting, and yes, just making sure that it's just authentic.

Erin: Yes, we are hearing that word a lot today and for very good reason. We hear the word authenticity all the time really when it comes to brand storytelling. How do we ensure then that paid partnerships remain authentic?

Shannae: I think that the best way to ensure that paid partnerships remain authentic is to only take partnerships for brands that you would be talking about organically. If you already love Home Depot and you go to Home Depot all the time, or you love Canadian Tire and you use Canadian Tire for everything and you tell your friends about it, then it's a natural fit if you work with that brand in a paid partnership. It's just almost like you're talking organically about it, but in this case, you're being paid, but it seems true, it seems authentic.

Don't talk about things that feel forced or that you don't really use because then you lose credibility. People are really smart. Don't underestimate the intelligence of your community and the audience that's watching. They know when they're being bamboozled, and they tune out and unfollow when those things happen. It's never worth it just trying to make a quick buck by touting a brand or service or product that you don't really care about or use in real life.

Erin: This wouldn't apply to REALTORS^®, especially the ones doing their own social media, but I'm sure that there are personalities who are known for plugging like 40 items. It's like, "Oh, okay, there she is again, and this time it's Jell-O, and yesterday it was something else." Yes, we can all have diverse interests and things in our lives, and we may love Jell-O, and Pepsi, and Canadian Tire, but sometimes I think that you can risk being overexposed. I'm sure you tell your clients that too, right?

Shannae: Yes, that's correct.

Erin: Yes. I mean, it's a good problem to have.

Shannae: I guess it can be, but it depends on whether you want longevity. I think that saying no to things, that there's power in saying no, and just really staying truthful and aligned with your ethos, and then just moving forward with the things that align with your brand best. You don't have to take everything.

Erin: That's right. If REALTORS^® are interested in integrating influencers into their marketing strategies, tell us where you think is a good place to start, Shannae?

Shannae: I truly believe that you're your best influencer, so don't be afraid to show up on camera, or even if you're not showing up face forward on the camera, don't be afraid to start posting things and posting maybe some of the properties that you are selling, or sharing some of your expertise, whether it just be by audio or with photos, and just talking and sharing your knowledge so that you can connect with the right people.

If you are looking to connect with influencers, I would definitely say you can definitely go through an agency, but you can also just connect with people by social media and start following them. Send them a message if you think that there might be an opportunity for you to work together. Reach out to them and send an email. In most cases, people's contact information are available in their bio.

I think that you miss all the shots that you don't take, so just try check it out. In real estate, people that are in real estate are great at sales. It's almost like door knocking but virtual. Don't be afraid to knock on a few doors and ask and put out some feelers to figure out how you might be able to work with somebody, or whether they might want to work for you in a social media capacity.

Erin: Okay, let's look closer to home then, so to speak. What about a client? Do you think a client would be a good storyteller?

Shannae: Yes, I think a client would be a great storyteller if they have a testimonial, or if they have a positive experience that they want to tell. There's nothing better than word-of-mouth marketing. If you have a client that's willing to share a positive experience, that is worth its weight in gold for sure. Yes, absolutely.

Erin: Most people don't feel truly comfortable performing to a camera or to even if it's just a phone or whatever too, so you've got to be judicious, don't you? Because you want it to be authentic, and not like somebody is sitting there like a deer in headlights answering your questions. I think that something we could come back to, and if you haven't emphasized it already, then maybe it's worth mentioning too, again, you can always edit and maybe be a little judicious with your editing. Should you show your content to somebody else before you put it out there into the world, Shannae?

Shannae: Yes. I feel like most content should get a run-through in the group chat first. A lot of my content gets sent to my girlfriends' group chat before I post it, just to make sure that there isn't anything that I'm saying that is incorrect or inaccurate, or that there isn't a stain on my shirt or whatever. The same thing applies with social media. Just run it by somebody that you trust just to make sure that you're putting something out there that makes sense.

Just tying back to your question previously about, do you use a client? If you have a client that doesn't feel comfortable speaking on camera or going online and sharing a testimonial, sometimes your work just speaks for itself. Maybe it's like a two-part series where you're talking about this home that you've listed, and then part two or the follow-up is that you're sharing that the home has been sold.

People don't always have to know the story or the person behind who owns the home or who the client is because people obviously value their privacy, but there are so many other ways that you can be your own cheerleader and share your successes and share how well you're doing as a real estate agent in a way that will attract new clients, more clients and more business to you and your platforms.

Erin: Well, it's certainly been eye-opening and so encouraging and just, oh, the sparks of inspiration from talking with you today, Shannae, it has been a real pleasure. Thank you, and continued success to you and Kensington Grey. Thanks again for taking the time to talk.

Shannae: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Erin: And we appreciate you listening to the podcast for Canadian REALTORS^®, discussing issues that affect you and can help enrich not just your business, but your life. Make sure to subscribe and follow so you don't miss one episode of REAL TIME. If you've got time, why not go for a deep dive? From designing women, to ad gurus, thinking green, and shedding light on human rights, the resources you need are right here on REAL TIME. This show is produced by Alphabet^® Creative. Rob Whitehead of Real Family Productions is on the tech side, and I'm your host, Erin Davis. We can't wait to talk to you next time on REAL TIME.