The Role of REALTOR.ca in Modern Real Estate

Erin Davis: Welcome to REAL TIME, the podcast for and about REALTORS^® presented by the Canadian Real Estate Association. I'm Erin Davis and I'm delighted to be your host for these informative, enlightening and often groundbreaking discussions about everything going on in your world now, how far we've come, and equally importantly, what's around the corner. Let's dig in. REALTOR.ca is Canada's most popular and trusted real estate platform developed and operated by CREA.

REALTOR.ca helps REALTORS^® and their listings achieve greater exposure while providing an easier, more accessible experience for property buyers, sellers, and renters. It's more than that. On this episode of REAL TIME, we're going to explore the evolution of listing sites and how REALTOR.ca has staked its claim as a leading platform beyond listings. We'll look at the future of Canada's real estate landscape, new innovations on the horizon, and how REALTOR.ca will continue to add value to best serve REALTORS^® and their clients. We are so pleased today to have with us two people who know REALTOR.ca inside out. Let's welcome them here on REAL TIME.

Patrick Pichette: Hi, Erin. Patrick Pichette, Vice President, REALTOR.ca. I'm the Vice President at CREA who is responsible for our technology offering which obviously includes our flagship product REALTOR.ca. This month is my 10th year anniversary with this wonderful organization.

Erin: Wow. The changes you've seen, and we'll be talking about those for sure. Andrew, sir, hi.

Andrew Jackson: Hey, nice to meet you. Thanks for having us, Erin. I'm Andrew Jackson, I'm the Head of Business Development at CREA. I myself joined about three years ago, and I primarily focus on developing partnerships and commercialization strategies.

Erin: Now, before we get too far into our conversation today, can we clarify the difference between an MLS system and REALTOR.ca? Patrick, you can lead us off into this.

Patrick: That's a great place to start, Erin. It's a question that comes up a lot even within our membership. Let's take a second talk about what is an MLS system. Without getting too technical, an MLS system is a cooperative selling system that is operated by a local real estate board or association. The Ottawa Real Estate Board operates an MLS system. Victoria, where you live, Erin, they operate an MLS system. Some are local and some are province-wide like in Nova Scotia, for example.

As a member of a board, you get access to an MLS system and you can share your listings with other REALTORS^®. The MLS systems also contain all sorts of detailed information and tools that are really geared towards the REALTORS^®. REALTOR.ca on the other hand is not an MLS system. This is where people get confused. REALTOR.ca is a national listing portal where consumers can view the listing info that is stored in these various systems across the country. Essentially, every REALTOR^® represented listing across Canada, residential, commercial, and even some rentals as long as they are shared within this local cooperative, will appear on REALTOR.ca. It's REALTOR.ca's role to engage consumers and be that one-stop research destination if that makes sense.

Erin: Yes, it does. Andrew, that's really where you come in, this sort of the consumer-facing angle of the whole thing. Is that correct?

Andrew: Yes. Well, I focus primarily on sourcing partnerships that are really going to enhance the experience for consumers on REALTOR.ca but also deepen the value to our members. Any partnership that we entertain, the first and foremost question is really where does this contribute to member value? What is this doing for the member? You can imagine that our phone rings off the hook because of how popular REALTOR.ca is, and oftentimes, people are like, "Yes, man, we'd love to put our thing there up on REALTOR.ca. Yet, often actually, those calls don't really have a clear value proposition to our members, so they don't really go anywhere. A lot of them have, so we've been able to bring a number of exciting partnerships and consumer experiences to bear.

Erin: Can you give us an example?

Andrew: Yes. Patrick, I'm just thinking of all the things that we've been adding even over the course of the pandemic, to the viewing experience. I know you want to touch on a couple of those.

Patrick: Yes, I think just really quickly one that comes to mind is the partnership with TD Bank. We know that consumers will visit various sources of data before making any decision. Actually, there's some research that indicates that the average consumer will look at 11 different sources before making a decision. We know that, yes, they're coming to REALTOR.ca. They're probably looking at other real estate sites. They're going to their bank website to see how much they can afford. They're going to social media. They're going to look up editorial content on sites like The Globe and Mail and so on.

The beauty about a partnership like TD Bank, in this case, when a consumer visits the site to go find out how much they can afford, and they do that by using their mortgage affordability calculator. Once they get that ideal range of a mortgage, TD will then show them listings from REALTOR.ca that fall within that range. The idea is that whether a consumer is on TD or Scotiabank, which is another partner, or Kijiji or The Globe and Mail, or they're on Microsoft Bing or on social media, that the information that they're seeing is consistent and that it's up-to-date. That's why we value these partnerships very much. It helps give credibility to that REALTOR^®, -generated information.

Erin: When we come back, how REALTOR.ca came to be? I'm sure you've heard the old saying that charity begins at home, and no one knows or exemplifies this better than the people we trust to sell and find our homes. You, the REALTOR^®, by volunteering and raising funds across the country, REALTORS^® play meaningful roles in the communities where you work and live. Let us know how you're giving back by sharing your story at REALTORSCare.ca, won't you?

Now, back to Patrick and Andrew on REAL TIME. Gentlemen, how did most consumers navigate listings prior to the advent of REALTOR.ca? Patrick, let's go back in the Wayback Machine and when did this start? Was it like renderings of condos on cave walls?

Patrick: Almost.

Erin: What are we looking at?

Patrick: Almost. I love the fact that you're going there because I love telling the story. Before REALTOR.ca was launched in 1995, there was no single source website in Canada for real estate information. You had to scroll through individual brokerage websites to see what was available and keep in mind that we're talking about the early '90s. There was very few brokerages that had websites. Really, the other option was to go directly to a brokerage office or even to the mall to see those one-pagers that are pinned up against the wall. I think we still see those one-pagers today, but back then, that was your best option. That and driving around, and looking for lawn signs.

Going back to 1995, the leadership back then made the really wise decision to launch a national website where consumers could see what was available in the market. Regardless of which broker represented the listing or which franchisor was doing their promotion, consumers now had a single source to access that information. However, the site was very primitive back in 1995. Most listings did not even include a single photo. Most listings did not even include an address. Address was not a mandatory piece of information for REALTOR.ca. You would literally have some listings that would have no photo, no address. It would be a message like, "I have a listing, a detached home, 1500 square feet, three bedrooms, call me for more information." That was the model back then.

Erin: If I understand this correctly, it's become the obverse if you will because, in 1995, REALTORS^® were driving consumers to listings, but now, as we see some 27 years later, it's listings driving to REALTORS^®. Is that about right, Andrew?

Andrew: Absolutely. REALTOR.ca is honestly one of the greatest pieces of member value that CREA delivers to the REALTORS^® of Canada. How that translates is in enormous amounts of leads generated as consumers continue to come to REALTOR.ca. The listing agent has always clearly displayed alongside a listing. Our mission there is to generate leads for our members. It really has created this great virtuous circle scenario.

Erin: What differentiates the platform from other real estate sites, Andrew?

Andrew: The way that I frame that question is actually to reflect what I'm hearing from the partners that approach us because of course, in my role, partners are contacting us and they're considering their options. I often hear from them as to this is why we picked REALTOR.ca. It really comes down to three things that I hear pretty consistently. First of all, that it's the most comprehensive. It has listings from every real estate board across Canada.

Secondly, it's the most popular site. It is the most visited real estate website in Canada, and I'm sure that Patrick has some Comscore data that will support that but that trend has actually just been continuing to grow. Third, I think this is really important. Perhaps, most important is that it's most trusted website by both consumers and REALTORS^®. I think a big part of that is because of our ownership as a member-based organization in CREA. Even if you think about the name, it's REALTOR.ca. A REALTOR^® is at the core of this. It means that the data that is coming from our members, it's trusted data. The business model of the website and the intentions are all trusted.

Erin: I’m a bit of a numbers geek. Patrick, do you have at your fingertips some of the numbers for the people who went to REALTOR.ca in 2021 by any chance?

Patrick: Yes, absolutely. Andrew mentioned the Comscore numbers. Comscore is an independent company that monitors web traffic in pretty much every industry including ours. REALTOR.ca, in 2021, had 45% market share, meaning 45% of all traffic to Canadian real estate websites and apps went to REALTOR.ca. Another great example is CIRA which is the Canadian agency that manages the .ca top-level domain. They recently came out with their quarterly report and indicated that REALTOR.ca is the sixth most visited “.ca”. Not just real estate, but all domains. It's ahead of sites like cbc.ca and walmart.ca.

Just to build on what Andrew was saying, this is great news for our members because they own a powerhouse brand that is trusted by Canadians. The fact that the site is called REALTOR.ca and that Canadians are spending so much time on this site, that's helped keep our members top of mind with the consumers. The second benefit of REALTOR.ca and why it's driving so much value is definitely the leads. In 2021, we sent about 6 million email and phone leads to our members. The great thing is that these leads go to them at no additional cost. Everything is included in their member deal. This is something that is unique anywhere in the world, the fact that members own the leading portal and that they don't have to pay to get those leads and business opportunities.

Erin: We're going to talk in a moment. We'll compare Canada and REALTOR.ca to other, let's say, neighbours, but what are the alternatives that are out there? If people weren't going to REALTOR.ca, what other options are there? Andrew?

Andrew: Consumers often will go to a number of different websites on their home buying journey. I think, Patrick, it’s on average 11 or something like that?

Patrick: Yes, 11.

Andrew: We know that consumers are going to get exposure to all sorts of different websites, and that's actually part of our strategy as well. We actually have a, you can think of it as a syndication service where a member who's choosing to share their listing on REALTOR.ca can also make the choice to have us distribute that to a number of partner websites that we do business with. In fact, if you were to look at the top 10, let's say, real estate websites in Canada, I believe the number is something like 8 of those are in fact powered by REALTOR.ca. They also, by the way, display a badge probably to do that because what it does for the consumer is they can see that badge and they can know that they're dealing with the real legit listing information right from REALTORS^®.

Erin: CREA is taking advantage of the, as you have put it, the purity of its model and intent for its members as well. Yes?

Andrew: Yes. I think when a member organization can really tap into who it is and who it isn't and that's what we've really done with REALTOR.ca. They can really differentiate on a vector that others can't touch, which is that it is that purity of the model. They're strictly for the creation of member value. I've actually worked at other not-for-profits that have had businesses that had the same structure at play. What it really allows for those businesses to do is really punch way above its weight class, if you will, and compete with much larger and often more capitalized entities.

Erin: When we return with Patrick Pichette and Andrew Jackson, we're going to talk about how REALTOR.ca stacks up against the global landscape. It's really encouraging.

There's something about sharing a cup of warmth and comfort with each other that's really connecting. At CREA Café, you are connected with each other, as well as the latest news and stats, legal matters, and advocacy updates. It's all right here at creacafe.ca. Grab a mug of what moves you and join in.

Now, back to REAL TIME with Andrew and Patrick comparing real estate portals, and how Canada shines. Looking to other parts of the world, how does Canada stack up in terms of these types of sites or services for consumers? How does REALTOR.ca, for example, compare to other real estate portals across the globe? Patrick?

Patrick: We actually stack up very, very well when you look at the landscape globally. I'll use the US as an example where the picture is actually somewhat different. In Canada, the large majority of licensees are REALTORS^®, meaning that they have a license but they're also members of a local real estate board, a provincial association, and CREA. In Canada, REALTOR.ca, with the MLS systems and their rules for cooperation are supporting most transactions. In the US, the industry is much more fragmented so only about 50% of licensees are REALTORS^®, meaning that they're members of a local association and are using the local MLS system. On top of that, there's about 600 different associations and MLS organizations in the States, and they also have a wide range of different portals.

There isn't really an equivalent to REALTOR.ca. It's nearly impossible to get a full national view of the marketplace in the US. One of these portals is REALTOR.com. Unlike here, REALTOR.com is not owned by the National Association. It's actually owned by News Corp which is a big media company. It owns the New York Post, The Wall Street Journal, and many other publications. Obviously, it operates under a different model than REALTOR.ca. At the end of the day, what a CREA member gets for their $310 a year in member dues, a US REALTOR^® will be paying thousands of dollars to REALTOR.com and other portals.

Erin: Those are US dollars of course. That is a huge difference. We are almost one-stop shopping, not to simplify it too much, and they're having to jump through all kinds of hoops and barriers and come up against walls and confusion. It paints a much better picture for where we are or am I being biased?

Andrew: I don't think you’re being biased. I think that's exactly the case. I think that, in fact, again, when various partners approached us and they once are educated on the Canadian landscape, they're like, "Man, wow, you guys have got a great here."

Erin: What does competition in the Canadian market mean for you, Andrew?

Andrew: More pressure for one but listen, competition is an indicator of a vibrant and healthy market, and it is always welcomed. Honestly, it's vital to everyone bringing their best game. That's the way that we view it. For us, it means we're paying real to close attention to important innovations, particularly those that I would say tap into recent consumer phenomenon or trends. I got to tell you, these past 2+ years has just been unprecedented in terms of changing consumer expectations, not only because of how much we've been doing remotely in the pandemic but also demographic shifts and the different expectations that come along with that.

Listen, buying and selling a home in today's markets is different than it was several years ago. All of that we can see has led to continued innovation, and we think that competition is bringing out the best in everybody.

Erin: We have heard from some of our guests already in 2022 about just how the pandemic just catapulted us into a future that we weren't expecting to be in for another, well, I don't know, 5 or 10 years. It's really been a strong and positive catalyst.

Andrew: Absolutely. It's almost science fiction, how you could fast forward so quickly. Now, these new ways have just become the new norm. It is unreal.

Erin Davis: Yes, warp speed. Let's look to the future then, both short and long term if we can. What's next for real estate transactions in Canada? What tools, technologies, and innovations can we expect to engage with in the future to enhance the buying, selling, and listing experience? We'll start with you, Patrick, please.

Patrick Pichette: Andrew just touched on this. A second ago, the COVID pandemic accelerated the adoption of several technologies that were still somewhat fringe before the pandemic. An example would be digital signatures, for example. Instead of meeting the client in person, doing that remotely. We're seeing a strong uptake there about 15% every year. Another great example is using live-streaming platforms, so Facebook live, Instagram, and so on, to do showings, to do open houses. When the pandemic started, nobody was doing this. We had zero live-streaming open houses that were being promoted on REALTOR.ca.

In a matter of weeks, into the pandemic, there were literally thousands of virtual live streaming open houses that were being promoted. That's an example of a technology that we saw maybe was going to be four, five years out, that really picked up some steam. We saw a bigger uptake in video and 3D tours. Before the pandemic, only about 15% of listings on REALTOR.ca included a video or 3D tour or an interactive floor plan that quickly doubled to 30%.

In terms of the short term, we're paying attention big time to virtual reality. This is something that hopefully all members are paying attention to. Yes, it's still early on in this technology. We've all seen the wearables. The headset is still clunky looking, but the hardware is going to become friendlier. 5G broadband is going to help as well. I really think virtual reality is primed to impact our industry.

In terms of the short term, the train has left the station when it comes to consumers expecting digital interactions. REALTORS^® need to get comfortable with integrating these kinds of technologies into their day-to-day practices.

Now, when it comes to long-term, Erin, it depends how far into the future you want to go. I think, one day, somebody will own real estate in outer space. Maybe that's probably too far out for this conversation. I would say pay attention to the early signals. You're hearing a new set of buzzwords, cryptos, NFTs.

Andrew Jackson: Metaverse.

Patrick Pichette: Yes, metaverse. Good one. I know it all sounds goofy right now but it's like being back in 1995. The internet was new. It was clunky. We were told that it was just a fad. We were told it was for scammers, so we need to stay off the internet. Then, we had the dot-com bubble that burst in 2000. Most of the dot-com projects disappeared but the underlining technology of the internet gave rise to the digital age that we're living in today. Listen, we're in 2022 now.

Just last month, a house in the US sold as an NFT for the first time. People are buying real estate in the metaverse. Millennials are buying crypto. I saw a survey by CNBC this week, and I know we're just talking about millionaires, but 83% of millionaire millennials have invested in crypto. It's early. These are just signals. I'm not saying that you need to run out and start engaging in all this. Take the time to understand the technology behind it. Just google your questions. Invest the time now to learn about this stuff. Become literate because it could pay off in five years from now.

Erin Davis: Yes, and Andrew, you found that crypto is even hitting close to home?

Andrew Jackson: I was going to say or have kids that can stay literate for you because my 15-year-old comes home and talks about the crypto club at his high school.

Erin Davis: Oh. He's not talking about a chess club or [crosstalk] anymore. It's a crypto club. That's fascinating.

Patrick Pichette: Andrew, what's happening is we're becoming our parents. Remember, our parents, how scared they were to put their credit card number into a website or do online banking and they rolled their eyes. Our generations doing the same thing now with crypto and NFTs, and so on.

Erin Davis: I think we're all looking for signs that it's safe. When REALTOR.ca says it's safe, then I'll believe you.

Patrick Pichette: We're not quite there yet.

Erin Davis: I'll keep an eye on it. How do we see REALTOR.ca evolving to add even more value to consumers? There has been a reference of REALTOR.ca shifting its focus from search to research. Now, explain to me, and I know this is going to be easier than nonfungible tokens or crypto. Thank you. What does that mean?

Patrick Pichette: Yes, it is easier to explain. It's something that we've been using internally as well with the team is the shift from search to research. Again, if we go back to 1995, REALTOR.ca listings for the most part had no pictures, had no address. Twenty-five years later, it's evolved into this national portal. The evolution will continue, and the next big step for us is to transition REALTOR.ca from a search to a research tool. What does that mean exactly? I can give you an example.

Currently, everything that's available for sale on REALTOR.ca, so everything that's represented by a REALTOR^®, obviously. It's on REALTOR.ca when it's for sale, but the moment that the listing comes off the market, there is no information left on the site.

Erin Davis: Right.

Patrick Pichette: One day, you're looking at 123 Main Street in Victoria, and the next day, the listing is gone, and you don't know why. That is a major pain point for consumers. It forces them to go elsewhere to get that information, because ultimately, the consumer will always find what they're looking for, and they're quite comfortable in doing their own research. Consumers want the history. They want to know how much a house sold for. They want the comparables.

They want to know things like, "This house I've been looking at, is it still available? Or is it actually conditionally sold?" They expect to get all this information on REALTOR.ca. Again, they're quite comfortable in doing their own research.

This shift, believe it or not, is also going to help our members because their value is not in answering basic questions about a property. Their value is to be a trusted adviser, help their clients understand what all that information means, help them navigate the process of buying or selling, and help them make the right decision.

Erin Davis: We'll be back with Patrick Pichette, VP of REALTOR.ca, and Andrew Jackson, CREA's Head of Business Development in a moment, looking into the future and what might not be happening.

The REAL TIME podcast is brought to you by the Canadian Real Estate Association. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We cover a wide array of fascinating topics. For a list of guests and what we've already talked about, go to CREA.ca/podcast or subscribe on your favourite platform.

Now, back to our guests and the future as we see where we're going, but perhaps most crucially, what we're holding on to. I need you guys to do a little bit of crystal ball gazing, if you will, what are the real estate predictions that everybody is betting on that you think won't happen? Andrew, I'm going to ask you to go first on this one.

Andrew Jackson: I don't know what everyone is betting on but you do quite often hear people question or even sometimes, REALTORS^® themselves reflect on concerns about what is-- They're maintaining their value proposition in amongst this world of all this innovation. I think that people completely sometimes underestimate the importance and the value of their advice. People are going to and they do continue to seek advice from those experienced individuals on what is one of the most substantial and increasingly complex transactions in their lives. Our research continues to show that in spades, so I really think that the REALTOR^® and the core value proposition of knowledge and advice, whether you're on the buying side or whether you're on the selling side, is very much there.

We're all about innovation as you've been hearing and listening to some of the things that we've made progress on over the 10 years that Patrick has been here and beyond. In the next 10 years, we're going to continue to innovate. It's in our mission, but we're never going to lose sight of that core value proposition that is working with an experienced REALTOR^®.

Erin: Amen. Patrick?

Patrick: I totally agree. I think there's a lot of people who are counting on the displacement of REALTORS^®, a lot of companies too. Andrew gets these calls on a daily basis, but I'm betting that is not going to happen. REALTORS^® will continue to be an essential part of the transaction. Now, technology will take over the admin side of the business, so how research is done, sharing information with clients, marketing, back and forth on paperwork, and so on.

REALTORS^® have to be ready to integrate technology into the process-oriented part of their businesses. There's always going to be a human side to the transaction, and buying and selling a home is a very emotional journey. There's always going to be a role for REALTORS^® to be that trusted advisor.

Erin: In this age where we're so used to diagnosing ourselves on Dr. Google and all of those things, a lot of us are used to doing a lot of the legwork on our own, aren't they, Andrew?

Andrew: Absolutely. I think that that is demographics support that even more so. Every generation younger than me, basically, they're used to picking up their phone and solving their own problems, or at least running with the ball far enough along until they reach those junctures where they really want the value add of someone who's been there done that. That's where they look for that experience.

Erin: It is an emotional journey too and not one that you should take on your own.

Andrew: Listen, who has bought or sold a house in the last couple of years? It's complicated. You need a strategy. You need a winning strategy. I think that that's where a lot of this value is in helping determine what's going to be the right strategy for you, what's worked in this circumstance, and what could be effective? Absolutely.

Erin: Let me ask you, Patrick. If you had one thing that you wished REALTORS^® knew or would take away from REALTOR.ca or use on REALTOR.ca, what would it be?

Patrick: I would say, Erin, most REALTORS^® don't know this, but going that extra mile in adding something to your listing, like a 3D tour, for example, actually has a significant impact on lead conversion. Earlier, I mentioned that, great, we're up to 30% of listings now that include a video or an interactive floor plan, a 3D tour. That's great, but there's still 70% of listings that don't. That's a takeaway I hope that REALTORS^® will take with them. What I can share is that listings that have that extra level of interactive content are 50% more likely to convert into a lead. That's something that we see across a board, whether it's adding a video or it's adding just more information about the neighbourhood, or more information about the listing. At the end of the day, a consumer that's better informed is going to be more engaged and are more likely to convert into a lead.

Erin: That's huge listings with virtual content, 50% more likely to convert to a lead than one without, that is huge. When you talk about historical info, what does that entail? What it sold four or five years ago, or what are you looking for there, Patrick?

Patrick: Gosh, there's so many data points that you can provide about a home and if you look at REALTOR.ca, not all listings are created equal. It could be, yes, sure, sold price history. It could be information on the taxes. It could be information about the neighbourhood, the schools nearby, condo fees. If you did a scanner REALTOR.ca, you'll see that as you're going through one listing to the next, you're going to come across a lot of gaps. There's still some listings that will have one or no picture. That is still happening in 2022.

Erin: That tells me, you do not want to see the inside of that house. Am I wrong?

Patrick: Exactly. Again, the takeaway is that a consumer that's better informed, that's better engaged, you're building the trust with them, they're more likely to call you to be that trusted advisor. They're not looking at REALTORS^® as gatekeepers to information. I think that's a myth that we need to break through.

Erin: Andrew, as we look at this from a consumer point of view, we are in the age of TL; DR, too long; didn't read. Can a REALTOR^® provide too many details? Can you give people too much information because I don't think that's possible? What do you think?

Andrew: I was going to say we're also in the world of scrolling with our thumbs pretty quickly. I agree with you. I think that people have become natural editors, and so that they can flip through and digest a whole lot of information really quickly and pull out the pieces that they think are really important.

I think what's interesting about this journey from search to research is that, and we've seen this also accelerated over the past couple of years where people are not just using the site when they're in the midst of a transaction. They're also now using this as part of their dreaming process about the future, or part of their curiosity process about what's going on in their neighbourhood, or you name it.

That's the shift that we saw is, and that's what's driving our consumer growth is that people are turning to this more. Even sometimes, if it's just for entertainment value because it's all very interesting and educational stuff.

Erin: That's why you're saying that you're hoping that people keep coming back to REALTOR.ca for the innovations that are currently and going to be happening.

Andrew: I think that we're taking this direction that Patrick talks about, the shift away from search to research very seriously. There's just so much that that vector holds, and we can't wait to bring it all out to you.

Erin: Oh, we can't wait either. You guys hold a spot.

Erin: Before we say goodbye for now, what single piece of advice would you give our listeners today to help them stay successful as this market continues to evolve, and Patrick will begin with you?

Patrick: I'll give you one very actionable and easy piece of advice. When it comes to keeping up with the market and with technology, there are no shortcuts. Take the time to do some research. I hope that this podcast today has stimulated some questions, and I'm sure everybody will be leaving with some questions about some things they heard, but take the time. Google your questions. Go to YouTube. Anything that we talked about today, there's probably a thousand videos on that topic. Just getting a habit of taking that 10, 15 minutes a day, do some research. If you do that, you'll be in the 1% club when it comes to knowledge around the latest tech trends and how it can help your business.

Erin: Andrew?

Andrew: Here's what I would say, Erin. I think that when you are really confident in your own core value proposition, when you know that people turn to you in those critical transactions and they need the advice, they want the advice, they want to bounce off ideas, they want to develop a winning strategy, when you know that those things are all there and going to remain true, then you can really lean into change. You can lean into these innovations. You can lean in and you don't even have to become an expert in it, but you can just be a little bit more relaxed about learning about these things and continue to build your own relevant experiences. That's the balance that I would advise.

Erin: It should be fun.

Andrew: It should be fun. It is fun.

Erin: As we have had today and proven. Thank you so much for joining us today, and I can't wait to hear what's next.

Andrew: Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Patrick: Thank you very much, Erin. Awesome.

Erin: It was. Our thanks again to Patrick Pichette, Vice President, REALTOR.ca, and Andrew Jackson, CREA's Head of Business Development for their insight and enlightenment.

REAL TIME is a presentation of the Canadian Real Estate Association. On our next episode, we'll be discussing mental health awareness. You're not going to want to miss it. REAL TIME is a production of Real Family and Rob Whitehead and Alphabet^® Creative. I'm Erin Davis. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll talk to you here again next time on REAL TIME.